Holset he351vgt

DecalServiceBrett · 01-29-2009, 09:33 PM

Did anyone ever figure out how to hack the electronic wastegate on the HE351VGT?

Didn't Poi buy one?

Lucky the Smiling Pirate · 01-29-2009, 09:35 PM

no, these are not the droids you're looking for

badvlvo · 01-30-2009, 01:55 AM

It couldn't be that hard to do. I don't have the electronic WG on my Holset so I can't play with one.

dbh86 · 01-30-2009, 02:38 AM

Brett, did you try yet?

500dollar744ti · 01-30-2009, 08:23 AM

hack? it should be just PWM.

JohnMc · 01-30-2009, 10:08 AM

I keep pondering using one of these. From what I've gathered:
1) It's PWM
2) When the vanes are closed, it might not be very appropriate for a gas engine (it can act like an engine brake on diesels?), might want to rig it to only close partway down.
3) Even wide open, when on a gas engine the boost will still keep climbing pretty high. So you'll likely need an external WG to go along with it.

Then there's the issue of what logic to use in governing the gate actuation. I think on the OEM fitment, the ECU is basing it on shaft speed, and that's one of the outputs (hall sensor?). Not sure if it's worth the effort of reading that though. I guess basing it on the boost pressure is probably about as good.

I saw where someone had just removed the electronic controller and replaced it with a normal WG actuator, on a little fabbed bracket. I guess that would work if you set its operating pressure somewhere below the WG operating pressure. For example, have the vanes set to open fully by 10 psi, then have the WG open at 15 psi.

I already have electronic PWM boost control on my 16T, I supposed you could probably get another PWM output going by using the dual table code and running the second injector output to the vane actuator.

Then I keep thinking perhaps I should just get a more conventional Holset (HE351CW looks nice, has an internal WG to make things easier). Or a nice ball bearing Garrett.

DecalServiceBrett · 01-30-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

hack? it should be just PWM.

I figured. I'm going to get one and feed it some PWM voltage.

DecalServiceBrett · 01-30-2009, 01:07 PM

John,

Wouldn't it just be so dang cool if it had a shaft speed sensor, to have a turbo shaft speed gauge? That would just be so awesome.

dieselboy · 01-30-2009, 08:21 PM

http://himni-racing.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1205

JohnMc · 01-30-2009, 09:16 PM

Some of the discussions I've seen around the 'net indicate that it already has some sort of sensor, but deciphering the signal and making a gauge would be beyond my electronic skills.

There also seem to be some sensors on the vane position, so the ECU isn't blindly going off a static PWM map, but dynamically positioning the vanes?

84 Blue 240 · 01-30-2009, 09:29 PM

Brett, if you are serious (and this isn't another hair brained idea), I CAN get you all the info you need. My friend works as a development engineer for the big 3's diesel programs (outside contractor).

Karl Buchka · 01-30-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Blue 240

Brett, if you are serious (and this isn't another hair brained idea), I CAN get you all the info you need. My friend works as a development engineer for the big 3's diesel programs (outside contractor).

You're talking to the guy who, in short order, managed to ventilate the block on at least one bone stock B21FT because he never bothered to tune his MS.

01-30-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

You're talking to the guy who, in short order, managed to ventilate the block on at least one bone stock B21FT because he never bothered to tune his MS.

your mom tunes ms better than brett

Karl Buchka · 01-30-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooprah

your mom tunes ms better than brett

I've actually shown her how to do it, so yeah, she probably does.

boostin'xr4 · 01-31-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

You're talking to the guy who, in short order, managed to ventilate the block on at least one bone stock B21FT because he never bothered to tune his MS.

That's insane. I've beat on my 300k mile b21ft so hard at 30+ psi and it just wont die.
I just won't ping, though.

DecalServiceBrett · 01-31-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

I've actually shown her how to do it, so yeah, she probably does.

I appreciate your sentiment. I blew up the B21ft because I had no O-ring at the oil return line and blew out all of my oil from crankcase pressure.

Thanks though. It was kyote's tune, and it worked fine.

boostin'xr4 · 01-31-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecalServiceBrett

I appreciate your sentiment. I blew up the B21ft because I had no O-ring at the oil return line and blew out all of my oil from crankcase pressure.

Thanks though. It was kyote's tune, and it worked fine.

Ok for a second there I thought someone actually killed one of those things.

DecalServiceBrett · 01-31-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostin'xr4

Ok for a second there I thought someone actually killed one of those things.

It's impossible if you aren't giddy enough to check for oil blowing out.

Shrike0064 · 04-18-2009, 09:18 PM

I took my controller apart. Since it's no good to me as is. I'm going to use it on my Land Rover Discovery I in a STSturbo configuration.
The controller for the HE351VGT communicates to the main ECU in 2007/2008 by the new CAN protocol. Internally the motor is a brushless DC motor with (3) hall effects for rotor position feedback. Also called BLDC. It is configured in a 3 phase WYE configuration. Motor drive is by (6) FDD16AN0 / 8A0, N channel FETs. One terminal of each phase (coil) are connected together. But not directly to ground or +12v. The other end of each phase is connected to the junction of Drain and Source of two FETs in a push-pull configuration. If you just want to make it spin, a standard R/C brushless dc motor Pulse Width controller works but provides no position feedback. Could provide feedback by counting gear teeth. However, the motor phases are separate. Each phase is connected via the PC board and not internally. Therefore it can be controlled as a stepper motor. A count can be taken for any position between fully open and fully closed. 9 steps for 1 full motor rotation. At start up full rotation to minimum boost can be set. Then the number of steps counted for any position in between. I'm thinking of counting gear teeth for feedback either way. Currently working on a drive and interface method so I can hook it up to an aftermarket boost controller.

Captain Bondo · 04-18-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecalServiceBrett

I appreciate your sentiment. I blew up the B21ft because I had no O-ring at the oil return line and blew out all of my oil from crankcase pressure.

Thanks though. It was kyote's tune, and it worked fine.

My car has an an oil light, it works awesome.

Mjolner · 04-18-2009, 11:15 PM

DNAsEqUeNcE · 04-18-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

My car has an an oil light, it works awesome.

About that...

the 85 engine had just an oil pressure switch, and I had it hooked into the gauge.. I didn't know jack about b21ft's then.

Thanks for the holset information!

chenz · 04-19-2009, 03:58 AM

Has anyone ever looked at a Jaycar boost controller?

http://180sx.locost7.info/boost_control3.php

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/for...207.html&st=40

Ive used one, Ive changed cars since but I think im going to put it back on to make my m46 conversion last longer

01-29-2009, 09:33 PM	#1
DecalServiceBrett Board Member Join Date: Apr 2007	Holset he351vgt Did anyone ever figure out how to hack the electronic wastegate on the HE351VGT? Didn't Poi buy one? __________________ rofl

01-30-2009, 01:55 AM	#3
badvlvo _________________________ Join Date: Feb 2006	It couldn't be that hard to do. I don't have the electronic WG on my Holset so I can't play with one. __________________ My gimp is free.

01-30-2009, 02:38 AM	#4
dbh86 <3 19015 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX	Brett, did you try yet? __________________ Kraken-pipe FTW!

01-30-2009, 08:23 AM	#5
500dollar744ti still rides with MrDoug Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfax, VA	hack? it should be just PWM. __________________ -Matt 1989 744T- 16v turbo, '94 FD-block, RSI pistons/rods, GT35R, Tial 38mm, RFL, MSnS-E, 100lb delphis, 4.6 springs, bondo header, 12x24x3 ebayIC, w/c t5, clutchnet 4puck/PP, 4.10 G80, 370whp/360wtq 1984 764GLE- 306ci V8 turbo, GT40's, TRW forged, FMS cam/springs, MSnS-E, 52lb delphis, BW T04b, RFL, Evo 38mm, 31x12x4 ebayIC, 3.73 G80, 354whp/462wtq 1990 745T- b230ft, 531 head, big valves, RSI rods, Cosworth turbo, w/c t5-z, full 3", 6puck, RC 550cc, MSnS-E, Forge 004, Fuso I/C, 4.10 G80

01-30-2009, 10:08 AM	#6
JohnMc PV Abuser Join Date: May 2004 Location: St. Louis	I keep pondering using one of these. From what I've gathered: 1) It's PWM 2) When the vanes are closed, it might not be very appropriate for a gas engine (it can act like an engine brake on diesels?), might want to rig it to only close partway down. 3) Even wide open, when on a gas engine the boost will still keep climbing pretty high. So you'll likely need an external WG to go along with it. Then there's the issue of what logic to use in governing the gate actuation. I think on the OEM fitment, the ECU is basing it on shaft speed, and that's one of the outputs (hall sensor?). Not sure if it's worth the effort of reading that though. I guess basing it on the boost pressure is probably about as good. I saw where someone had just removed the electronic controller and replaced it with a normal WG actuator, on a little fabbed bracket. I guess that would work if you set its operating pressure somewhere below the WG operating pressure. For example, have the vanes set to open fully by 10 psi, then have the WG open at 15 psi. I already have electronic PWM boost control on my 16T, I supposed you could probably get another PWM output going by using the dual table code and running the second injector output to the vane actuator. Then I keep thinking perhaps I should just get a more conventional Holset (HE351CW looks nice, has an internal WG to make things easier). Or a nice ball bearing Garrett. __________________ '63 PV Rat Rod '93 245 Classic #1141

01-30-2009, 01:07 PM	#8
DecalServiceBrett Board Member Join Date: Apr 2007	John, Wouldn't it just be so dang cool if it had a shaft speed sensor, to have a turbo shaft speed gauge? That would just be so awesome.

01-30-2009, 08:21 PM	#9
dieselboy Wants seanm9 to go away. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SoCal/ Ramona	http://himni-racing.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1205 __________________ -Jesse '83 242 tic 16v turbo,,jvab internals, PZ cams, ms, coilovers, heim links, prp bucket seats, 1000cc injectors, 4'' intercooler, ttr cam gears, dale pulley, edis, ipd sways, 13'' brembos, tko600, rollin on 18" Atlantis, flathood, vdo gauges and more.. '93 Bronco stock '94 f-350 turbo diesel

01-30-2009, 09:16 PM	#10
JohnMc PV Abuser Join Date: May 2004 Location: St. Louis	Some of the discussions I've seen around the 'net indicate that it already has some sort of sensor, but deciphering the signal and making a gauge would be beyond my electronic skills. There also seem to be some sensors on the vane position, so the ECU isn't blindly going off a static PWM map, but dynamically positioning the vanes?

01-30-2009, 09:29 PM	#11
84 Blue 240 Board Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: PA	Brett, if you are serious (and this isn't another hair brained idea), I CAN get you all the info you need. My friend works as a development engineer for the big 3's diesel programs (outside contractor).

04-18-2009, 09:18 PM	#19
Shrike0064 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun.	I took my controller apart. Since it's no good to me as is. I'm going to use it on my Land Rover Discovery I in a STSturbo configuration. The controller for the HE351VGT communicates to the main ECU in 2007/2008 by the new CAN protocol. Internally the motor is a brushless DC motor with (3) hall effects for rotor position feedback. Also called BLDC. It is configured in a 3 phase WYE configuration. Motor drive is by (6) FDD16AN0 / 8A0, N channel FETs. One terminal of each phase (coil) are connected together. But not directly to ground or +12v. The other end of each phase is connected to the junction of Drain and Source of two FETs in a push-pull configuration. If you just want to make it spin, a standard R/C brushless dc motor Pulse Width controller works but provides no position feedback. Could provide feedback by counting gear teeth. However, the motor phases are separate. Each phase is connected via the PC board and not internally. Therefore it can be controlled as a stepper motor. A count can be taken for any position between fully open and fully closed. 9 steps for 1 full motor rotation. At start up full rotation to minimum boost can be set. Then the number of steps counted for any position in between. I'm thinking of counting gear teeth for feedback either way. Currently working on a drive and interface method so I can hook it up to an aftermarket boost controller.

04-18-2009, 11:15 PM	#21
Mjolner Board Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Georgia

04-19-2009, 03:58 AM	#23
chenz Board Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Has anyone ever looked at a Jaycar boost controller? http://180sx.locost7.info/boost_control3.php http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/for...207.html&st=40 Ive used one, Ive changed cars since but I think im going to put it back on to make my m46 conversion last longer

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