9 series strut mounts redrilling for -1* camber

[DET17]

or thereabouts. Many an old thread here about "the camber mod", etc. etc. Well I've got the front suspension out of the "cheap thrills" 944, and want this increased camber before wrapping up the front end.

Here are the stocker mounts as found:

[IMG][/IMG]

Knocked out the front studs, rotated each side inboard until contact reached with strut towers (rear stud/nut "just snug):

[IMG][/IMG]

I marked with sharpie the location of the relocated front stud for this max. negative camber location (without trimming the ID of the strut housing, which I prefer to leave stock):

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

My scale says they both will take a maximum of 24~25mm. I know several old threads claimed around 22mm. Sound about right? Car has not been hit in the front end, completely stock 92 944. Last, found a couple posts from Janspeed (Euro guy) who moved both studs in parallel around 14~16mm, and also trimmed strut tower. Anyone ever measure for both to see if the dual stud offset gave more - camber? I was not planning to fit check with the IPD sport springs, as the OD is smaller than the strut housing, so I can't (yet) imagine how the springs will rub if the upper housing fits. I understand the IPD lowered height will benefit the - camber just a bit as well. Whatdayathink?

[Wilford Brimley]

I just did this, a lil more ghetto but it worked looks good




Left side before



After



Right side





Neg camber

[tritoch]

Love the pictorials. Not sure if the old threads are in articles or not (search for 'camber' came up negative [edit: omg I'm sorry]), but this seems worthy, maybe with a bit more write-up (in case the pics went down?)

Why were there 2 marks on the driver side? Looks like the inner one is an 'oops'?

[peehound]

I just rotated the struts an drilled 'em; didn't pull 'em out, or measure, or anything.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Why were there 2 marks on the driver side? Looks like the inner one is an 'oops'?

The factory strut towers are slotted fore & aft.....I marked both possible front stud locations, one with the strut plate slid aft (more + caster) and one with strut plate slid forward (more negative camber). For some reason, there was a difference in the transferred holes, between the pass. & driver sides....it's tough to mark it and look up the strut tower (for interference) simultaneously! At any rate, I'm after - camber to provide "grip" and reduce the miserable tire wear issues with this front suspension.

Any lost caster, of course recovered with "the caster mod"

No one tried the "Euro camber mod", both studs offset in parallel?

[Devsbeater]

Originally Posted by peehound

I just rotated the struts an drilled 'em; didn't pull 'em out, or measure, or anything.

I did this too, took like 10 mins including jacking up each side separately. used the same body hole and just drilled the tophat, so a tower brace would still be useable.

[DET17]

Originally Posted by Devsbeater

I did this too, took like 10 mins including jacking up each side separately. used the same body hole and just drilled the tophat, so a tower brace would still be useable.

5 minutes anybody? Somebody?

OK, fit checking again tonight to make sure the strut mount wasn't "riding up the radius" with 24~25mm offset. Snugged the rear nuts, slid the strut mounts inboard with care that they stayed in flat contact with the strut tower surface, then scribed them both; now it appears that 23mm is closer to the max. offset. (I think Billy from Knox Motorsports said he moved his 22mm). Will drill & press the original studs back in at a buddy's machine shop tomorrow to retain the press-in feature for top side removal.

For grins, I did knock both studs out of the drivers side, and fit checked the "Euro dual offset". Without grinding the strut tower ID hole, it seems you can barely offset BOTH holes around 10mm, or one stud diameter. I don't want holes adjacent to holes, so I'll use the front offset at 23mm. Reinstall the camber offset strut mounts, new SKF bearings, then the IPD sport springs, and last struts fitted with Bils HD's. I'll snap a couple pics looking "from the strut" to show the mounts maxed against the inboard tower for TurboBricks posterity.

[ryank]

I see the reference to 10mm offset and 23mm offset based on either moving both holes parallel, or rotating just the front hole. Are there any other pluses or minuses to the two different methods?

[MadDog_945]

Moving just the Frontbolt is an official Volvo announced Method to get rid of excesssice tyre wear..







Volvo specialtool 5083




From the greenbooks..


They say moving the hole 3mm(0,3cm) into the longhole should be 0,25°...

[Roy 940]

True, I move my bolts 9.00mm and I have now -0.75 deg camber...

[DET17]

Originally Posted by Roy 940

True, I move my bolts 9.00mm and I have now -0.75 deg camber...

Roy, I'm presuming you moved both bolts EACH 9mm, correct? Alles klar?

[MadDog_945]

both bolts means both front left and right bolts in this case.. i think/hope ;)

[kendogg]

Why not use a camber bolt at the bottom of the strut instead of all this redrilling?

[Roy 940]

Originally Posted by DET17

Roy, I'm presuming you moved both bolts EACH 9mm, correct? Alles klar?

Yes, correct! And it's a huge improvment about tires wear and front end grip! One of the first and best mods to do!

[Devsbeater]

Originally Posted by kendogg

Why not use a camber bolt at the bottom of the strut instead of all this redrilling?

no can do on these cars.

This mod should only take like 10 mins if your not being anal, which I definatly wasnt, an no offense to those who are.

[krad]

I found similar description for 960 (with some specs) here (http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbook...nt-qx14846.pdf)

Originally Posted by MadDog_945

Moving just the Frontbolt is an official Volvo announced Method to get rid of excesssice tyre wear..







Volvo specialtool 5083




From the greenbooks..


They say moving the hole 3mm(0,3cm) into the longhole should be 0,25°...

[JE Jr]

Thanks for the info! Makes me feel good that also Volvo recommends this.

[DET17]

OK, I've got the "top hats" or top strut mounts modified with the forward studs moved 23mm. Great pains were taken to assure symmetry between them; install validated as they fit perfect in the tower slots with same amount of fore/aft motion for caster adjustment:

[IMG][/IMG]

With them installed, here are a couple shots of the drivers side (LH side) showing that the modified mounts are now in contact with the strut tower at ~ the 10 o'clock position:

[IMG][/IMG]

and also:

[IMG][/IMG]

Last, a couple view "from the strut" to show that the upper mounts are at the limit of inboard movement, without metal removal. Drivers side (LH side):

[IMG][/IMG]

and the pass side (RH side):

[IMG][/IMG]

Notice the new INA strut bearings....I don't want to go back in here anytime soon. BILS HD right behind....... Last, for the record, a 10.5mm hole was drilled before pressing the OE studs back into position (place a socket on the opposite side so you minimize deformation - the metal is pretty soft).

[MadDog_945]

aaaah this is nice documented !

23mm? isnt that a bit hard?

[DET17]

Originally Posted by MadDog_945

aaaah this is nice documented !

23mm? isnt that a bit hard?

Ist keine probleme! From others who have made this modification, they report around -1* of camber, which is not excessive and helps to even out the tire wear, and makes improved grip of the front end.

I won't have alignment data for several months, but will post in this thread for the TB brothers & sisters. Can I get an AMEN?

[MadDog_945]

AMON Bruder :D

[Natural244]

Quick question about this process:

You only have to move the front stud toward the inside (toward the engine bay), correct? Seems that this would affect the toe more than the camber, I would think you would want to move both the front and rear stud mounts in parallel?

Tim

[DET17]

Of course, toe must be readjusted. From my experience, that is step 3, after you set camber (1st) then caster (2nd). This modification does not permit much camber change, as the slots in the strut towers are fore & aft.....i.e. caster.

[jerryc]

There was another thread on this recently; that one referred to another older one in which Janspeed did a nice writeup on moving both bolts. I don't have the links handy.
It seems to me that the difference between the two is that, in the two bolt method the maximum that the tophat can be moved Without grinding the hole in the top of the tower, is approx 10mm, and that moves the centerline of the strut assy also 10mm.
The one bolt method as above here moves the front bolt only, up to 23mm, and pivots off the stationary rear bolt. So how much the centerline moves (which would be the actual determinant of camber change) has not been measured AFAIK, but could be calculated if one was more up on geometry than I am currently. My guess though is that it's in the 8-11mm range. Still worthwhile.

From above diagrams
They say moving the hole 3mm(0,3cm) into the longhole should be 0,25°
From this, then it could be plotted what amount of movement will provide what optimal camber change. More neg camber will reduce outside edge tire wear, and increase tire bite in turns, but how much will increase inside edge wear...? And a factor for these figures would be use of car; DD, rally, etc.

Some time ago I read where some make a slot in the front hole of the tower instead of drilling new holes, so they could slide the strut assy similar to the 240's.

Originally Posted by Natural244

Quick question about this process:
You only have to move the front stud toward the inside (toward the engine bay), correct? Seems that this would affect the toe more than the camber, I would think you would want to move both the front and rear stud mounts in parallel?
Tim

Moving the top of the strut assy will mostly affect camber, side to side. If fore/aft, caster. Toe would be affected only slightly if at all, and as Det17 said would be checked/adjusted last.

[peehound]

Originally Posted by DET17

Of course, toe must be readjusted. From my experience, that is step 3, after you set camber (1st) then caster (2nd). This modification does not permit much camber change, as the slots in the strut towers are fore & aft.....i.e. caster.

I've found ~1/16"/1.5mm toe OUT is optimum after this modification.
Use washers on the strut rod for caster.