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164RS project

Beautiful car. Its a credit to you. Will be nice to see when its done and on the road, also more updates. ahah if you were going to call it an RS, you shouldve called it a Porsche lol

I just loaded all of it......dial up...... and im amazed. That is brilliant. It is awsome to see the extensive work you have done. Bloody brilliant mate. Makes me think twice about cars that a small amount of rust on the OUTSIDE. Good work mate. I cannot wait to see the continuing process and final product. Saving this link so i can come back to it when it gets lost.
 
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Hi folks,

Thanks for the positive comments, very motivating to read sitting here!

A few responses:

This looks a really good project when are you hopeing to get it done by
pete

There is no target date... it's a hobby and if I feel like a break I take one. Sometimes the money runs out and I also have some other projects coming up, such as building a new garage to put this lot in! So, overall, I would put it at 1 to 2 years from now for completion.



My friend just got a 164.

That's a really nice project, and I'm sure, an inspiration to a lot of 164 owners

I hope so; I love the 164 and it's a more capable car than people think. Smooth 160bhp stock for an E in europe (175bhp SAE) and the only real weakness in standard form is the roll and understeer, but dual front anti-roll [sway] bars or an IPD bar, with nothing else done, makes a huge difference. This is the one mod every 164 should have.

(Well, actually, the other problem on an auto is the gearbox, but I guess that's the same with most 70's autos? In the late '80s I had a '75 164E auto; and had the auto box checked as being in good health. Later I converted it to an M410 and, with nothing else done, it felt like it gained 30 to 40% more power. Subjective feel of performance went from 'not bad but a bit frustrating' to 'this is quick enough to really surprise people'.

I wonder if anybody has ever retro fitted a more modern 80s/90s auto box with 4+ speeds and lock-up? That would make a nice 164 because the auto does suit the character of the car).


Beautiful car. Its a credit to you. Will be nice to see when its done and on the road, also more updates. ahah if you were going to call it an RS, you shouldve called it a Porsche lol.

There is a logic to the name. I thought it would too sad to explain it, but since you raised the point...

I thought of 164GT, Volvo used the tag for tuning upgrades. Then I thought 'what would Volvo call it if it was a step beyond a GT?'. I thought 164R, then 164R Supercharged, then just 164RS. As well as Porsche, Ford (& maybe others?) used the RS tag in the early 70s so I settled on that (even though a supercharger not definite at the start of the project).


I just loaded all of it......dial up...... and im amazed. That is brilliant. It is awsome to see the extensive work you have done. Bloody brilliant mate. Makes me think twice about cars that a small amount of rust on the OUTSIDE. Good work mate. I cannot wait to see the continuing process and final product. Saving this link so i can come back to it when it gets lost.

Wow, thanks for getting it all through dial-up. Hope it doesn't cost you too much!

Yeah, there is always more rust than you can see (even when you can't see any!). I'm sure your climate in OZ will be kinder to car bodies. The vast majority of 164s in the UK rusted away long ago; they were already quite rare here 20 years back. My car was put into dry storage in Switzerland for 15 years, and this has helped it last fairly well for a European car.

I am focused on the final outcome and I have a clear picture in my mind. However, I don't work fast (it's a fun hobby, not a job) and have lot's of other things to do, so don't hold your breath!



Holy crap. That is one of the most extensive projects on this board at the moment I think, the amount of work you're putting into it makes everyone else doing little bits here and there seem like amateurs, other then BB-Q, who is basically making a whole car..

BBQ's 142 is awesome... mine is like a wash and polish compared to that! We are amateurs, but have fiddled with lots of cars over the years and built up experience by trial and error. Also have the very big asset of a close friend who, in the 70's, was a mechanic for a vintage racing outfit (300bhp 30's Lagonda and supercharged V8 Morgan that would pass a GT40 on the straight), and also he used to do bodywork and paint to show standard.


Using the stock Volvo IC isn't the best idea however, they are thin and don't flow that well, that other one you have pictures is a lot thicker core and bar and plate, so it will flow a lot better then the Volvo one.

Yeah, I've had similar feedback. I do need an intercooler that is quite thin for space reasons (plus big frontal area, not thickness, gives good heat transfer). The alloy IC in the photo is really too small I think, but I have been recommended to try an IVECO turbo-diesel truck intercooler which is similar size to the Volvo 740 one but thicker. Anyway, the final call on this will wait until the engine is back in because I need to be able to measure accurately. The standard 164 water-pump has a long 'nose' which restricts space, but it could maybe be shortened? Jobs for later.


Cool project. What are the details of the supercharger and engine build? Have you nailed down details or are you still in the planning stages? I just got a '75 164 with an auto that I'm trying to figure out what to do with.

Engine spec... more than planning, but not fully nailed down.

Objective:
It is not a 'max power' project. I am seeking a reliable 250-270bhp for road use
I don't want it highly stressed; I am hoping to get at least 70 or 80k miles before another rebuild is needed
Strong torque and good drivability
Reasonable fuel consumption when cruising

I have worked out the spec using Corky Bell's excellent book, "Supercharged!"

The definites (95+%):
Fully rebuilt & balanced
K-cam
Reduced CR (10:1 standard in euro B30E)
Heavy duty oil pump
Mild flow work on the head
Pistons to cope with boost/heat. Forged pistons, or ceramic coated (I may have to use a 74 or 75 metric B30 because I could then use B21 forged pistons)
Oil cooler & remote mount oil filter
Higher flow fuel pump
Supercharger (Eaton M62)
Intercooler
Megasquirt (or similar) for fuel and ignition. Knock sensor. OE injectors will flow enough
Extractor exhaust manifold [header] & custom large bore system
Different air flow meter (don't know which yet)
OE inlet manifold, modded to accept AFM
Cone type air filter with cold air feed


The possibles:
Larger exhaust valves
Over-bore to 3.2
Water injection (fit later if needed)
Electric water pump


If the B30 has the nerve to blow up after all that work, I'll weld a chain on top, sell it as a boat anchor and drop a Chevy LS in there!

Cheers all

John
 
Great project!

But what i was wondering when i took a closer look on the photo's: Are you not going to change the windshieldwipers to RHD style?
 
Great project!

But what i was wondering when i took a closer look on the photo's: Are you not going to change the windshieldwipers to RHD style?

No, all 100 and 200 UK market RHD Volvo came with LHD wipers until about 78/79. (South African and Australian built cars changed to RHD wipers earlier then the Swedish-built ones).


very very nice work there!
I like 164's a lot!

BTW, why supercharge it? Do you need to do that to achieve 250-275bhp?
Keep up the good work!

Good question. There are NA B30s with that type of power. My reasons for supercharging (in no particular order):

- Never done a supercharger install but always wanted to have a go
- I want the engine to last... don't want to have to rev it high all the time to get the power
- Serious head work (needed to get it breathing with NA) would probably cost more than a supercharger
- Potential for adding some more boost/power later if I feel like it
- Loads of room for a supercharger to the left of the engine (non-crossflow), unlike for a turbo where things would get very crowded on a RHD car (I tried it for a year with LHD but didn't like it... too difficult to get overtaking visibility on narrow UK roads. That, and trying to change gear with the door handle!)


Cheers

John
 
I wonder if anybody has ever retro fitted a more modern 80s/90s auto box with 4+ speeds and lock-up? That would make a nice 164 because the auto does suit the character of the car.

I may be able to get hold of a BW35 to AW71 convertor, but they weren't cheap to machine up.
 
Hi,

Time for another update.

Engine

We dismantled the engine yesterday. It has some wear to the bores and bearings, and the big end crank journals may need to be remachined. So perhaps it has done more than the claimed 80k miles, or it may be a function of motorway use and low gearing (80mph was 4000rpm before I fitted the overdrive). The camshaft also has significant wear; two of the lobes have probably lost about 40% of their lift.

Anyway, no matter, it will all be rebuilt. I'm pleased that I decided to do this before fitting the supercharger!

Also we found evidence of previous failure; a bit of the old fibre timing gear in the sump! A steel gear is now fitted.

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090403003.jpg


090403004.jpg


090403005.jpg


090403006.jpg


090403007.jpg


090403008.jpg


Starting to clean up the sump ready for repainting
090403009.jpg



Rear suspension

No photos, but we started a trial fit of the 17 inch wheels. Job was stalled because I need some left-hand threaded bar and lock-nuts to make the panhard rod adjustable (so we can centre the axle with a lowered ride height). I couldn't get any locally yesterday so I'll look on the interweb and come back to that job later.

That's all for now...

John & Steve
 
Rear suspension

No photos, but we started a trial fit of the 17 inch wheels. Job was stalled because I need some left-hand threaded bar and lock-nuts to make the panhard rod adjustable (so we can centre the axle with a lowered ride height). I couldn't get any locally yesterday so I'll look on the interweb and come back to that job later.

This project is awesome.

For the panhard rod I assume your getting left hand thread so you can make both ends adjustable? You could just put thread on one end. You have to pull one bushing off to adjust it, but it isn't as likely to come undone. Once you have set it to the right length you shouldn't need to adjust it on the car.
 
This project is awesome.

For the panhard rod I assume your getting left hand thread so you can make both ends adjustable? You could just put thread on one end. You have to pull one bushing off to adjust it, but it isn't as likely to come undone. Once you have set it to the right length you shouldn't need to adjust it on the car.

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes, I know what you mean. I do like to make the Panhard rod adjustable on the car. It will be helpful to be able to tweak it on-car on the 164 because the wheelarch clearance will be very tight.

What I normally do is cut out a 10 - 15cm section out of the rod, either near the middle or somewhere with easy access for adjustment; doesn't matter really. Then I weld a nut onto the cut ends (one LH thread, the other RH). Then I make an insert with LH and RH threaded bar welded together, with a nut welded in the centre to facilitate adjustment with a spanner.

When all assembled, turning the threaded insert one way shortens the Panhard rod and vice versa. I use locknuts of course to brace it and avoid the lateral load mashing the thread.

If the arch clearance mega tight, I may have to think about converting to a Watt linkage (or similar) to keep the axle centred through its entire travel. But that is a lot of extra work that I'm still hoping to avoid!

Cheers

John
 
If the arch clearance mega tight, I may have to think about converting to a Watt linkage (or similar) to keep the axle centred through its entire travel. But that is a lot of extra work that I'm still hoping to avoid!

Cheers

John

If you've got bigger wheels it would be more crucial, I got lucky all I had to do was measure twice and measure again, then drill a second hole in the mount on the body.

The attention to detail in this build thread is astounding, keep it up.

Oh and keep working on the car too.
 
If you've got bigger wheels it would be more crucial, I got lucky all I had to do was measure twice and measure again, then drill a second hole in the mount on the body.

The attention to detail in this build thread is astounding, keep it up.

Oh and keep working on the car too.

My wheels are 8.5x17 inch and I am hoping to be able to use 235/45 tyres. (Plan B is 225s).

I want to retain adjustability because I expect I'll need to experiment with the ride height. The back-roads around here (Yorkshire, UK) are fun but often very bumpy. This car is not being built as a show/cruiser; it needs to be fast and capable on our challenging roads. So I want it quite low to drop the CoG, but still high enough to have decent suspension travel and ground clearance. Some trial and error will be involved!

John
 
Hey, really cool project.

The B30 is one massive engine. I was always under the imprerssion that the B30 came with an all steel drive gear for the cam, i guess not then. Orthen someone has changed the steel gear to B20 gear for some reason.

I like that you have tons of pictures, and i like the attention to detail. What transmisison are you going to bolt behind that beast?
 
My wheels are 8.5x17 inch and I am hoping to be able to use 235/45 tyres. (Plan B is 225s).

I want to retain adjustability because I expect I'll need to experiment with the ride height. The back-roads around here (Yorkshire, UK) are fun but often very bumpy. This car is not being built as a show/cruiser; it needs to be fast and capable on our challenging roads. So I want it quite low to drop the CoG, but still high enough to have decent suspension travel and ground clearance. Some trial and error will be involved!
This would be a good time to pull the rear quarter panels. If you're fitting new arches on the rear, or doing any work at all to the arches, it's not very difficult to move the panel out just a little. Just by making the arch 1" wider as measured from the inner guard to the fender lip above the mudflap will make a HUGE difference in tire clearance. I pulled mine 1.5" and now I fit 265 tires on 9.5" wheels with no rubbing. The top of the arch is not pulled at all, but the fender lip is folded flat. I drilled the spot welds along the fender lip, split the outer panel from the inner, cut off the lip only from the inner panel, slice the quarter panel along the spare tire well, and then push the panel out. Fold the outer fender lip over the inner panel and spot weld it together. Welding the outer panel back to the inner panel where it was previously spot welded will hold the panel out w/o any additional bracing.

Some pictures are here on page 4 & 5 of the area after it was pulled.
http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/bodywork&page=4
 
This would be a good time to pull the rear quarter panels. If you're fitting new arches on the rear, or doing any work at all to the arches, it's not very difficult to move the panel out just a little. Just by making the arch 1" wider as measured from the inner guard to the fender lip above the mudflap will make a HUGE difference in tire clearance. I pulled mine 1.5" and now I fit 265 tires on 9.5" wheels with no rubbing. The top of the arch is not pulled at all, but the fender lip is folded flat. I drilled the spot welds along the fender lip, split the outer panel from the inner, cut off the lip only from the inner panel, slice the quarter panel along the spare tire well, and then push the panel out. Fold the outer fender lip over the inner panel and spot weld it together. Welding the outer panel back to the inner panel where it was previously spot welded will hold the panel out w/o any additional bracing.

Some pictures are here on page 4 & 5 of the area after it was pulled.
http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/bodywork&page=4

Yes, thanks. I'll look into that if I need to.

John
 
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