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1997 V90 starting issues

poulrais

poulrais

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Location
Quebec, CAN
Posted this on TB's FB page but the admins must be on vacation since it's been waiting for their approval for 3 days...

1997 V90. I turn the key, it cranks but it will take longer than normal to start. If I turn the key to PII not engaging the starter, turn it back off then turn it back on engaging the starter it will start right away. Fuel pump going bad and not priming enough on the first try?, FPS?, clogged fuel filter? Once it's started it has no issue but it does feel low on power even though I know that this isn't a quick car.
 
2manyturbos said:
More likely the check valve in the fuel pump is not holding pressure. If you have a fuel pressure tester you can verify if this is the problem. Basically, if that is the problem it means buying a replacement fuel pump.
Click to expand...
I was hoping on not having to replace that fuel pump but hey, 180k miles and years of sitting in a field in New Jersey can do this to a car... At least it's a rust free unit.
 
Just bought a tester on Amazon. Should get it delivered tomorrow and will test. Once again this forum delivers way better when needing an answer than the FB page.
 
Yeah…Check valve is in the tank on the pump on those iirc?

Sometimes it’s the FPR not closing all the way (they don’t like to sit in varnish fuel & sometimes stick shut and other times stick open) &/or fuel rails can ooze on those or maybe a leaky injector, but it’s most likely the check valve as 2manyturbos sez, &, also, if you’re going to go the effort to dive in the tank and do a ‘like replacement’ of the check valve, it’s probably prudent to replace the pump in practical terms…

Lack of holding fuel rest pressure is often more pronounced / presents symptoms of difficult startup moreso after the engine is heat soaked &/or in the summer months, in general, as well…

Some of those have a schrader valve on the fuel rail?
checking fuel pressure is pretty easy if that’s the case?

Idk if there’s a Canadian moral-equivalent to O’Reilly or Autozone / similar that’ll loan tools w/deposit for free if returned in the allowed time?

Not an especially expensive tool, but also why buy infrequently used tools more often than necessary, if avoidable?
 
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If you’re getting a solid squirt at the shearer valve then fuel system is good … if a weak old man squirt then pump or relay

Never really had to check pressure but I have the tool


Again if like 850
 
2manyturbos said:
More likely the check valve in the fuel pump is not holding pressure. If you have a fuel pressure tester you can verify if this is the problem. Basically, if that is the problem it means buying a replacement fuel pump.
Click to expand...
We have this issue on gf 850, does it randomly so we just left it alone for the last 3 years
 
Jack said:
If you’re getting a solid squirt at the shearer valve then fuel system is good … if a weak old man squirt then pump or relay

Never really had to check pressure but I have the tool


Again if like 850
Click to expand...
Very similar to late ‘97 850, yes, just N/A w/7/9 IRS shaped fuel tank, sender and cluster and fuel lines, as you’d expect?

I believe the fuel pump itself is the same part # as some 850, even?

I believe final year (‘95) 940s use the same (or ‘compatible’ is my recollection as a guy who uses basically all used cherry picked OE parts, anyway?) single in-tank fuel pump as many 850s as well?

It’d probably have been memorable if any of the owners of those cars ever coughed up so much as a dime to fix one w/late 7/9, but, well…as the song goes?

960/90 gets VVT a couple years sooner (‘97 & ‘98s?) as well as the SAS air pump setup iirc?
 
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Kjets On a Plane said:
Yeah…Check valve is in the tank on the pump on those iirc?

Sometimes it’s the FPR not closing all the way (they don’t like to sit in varnish fuel & sometimes stick shut and other times stick open) &/or fuel rails can ooze on those or maybe a leaky injector, but it’s most likely the check valve as 2manyturbos sez, &, also, if you’re going to go the effort to dive in the tank and do a ‘like replacement’ of the check valve, it’s probably prudent to replace the pump in practical terms…

Lack of holding fuel rest pressure is often more pronounced / presents symptoms of difficult startup moreso after the engine is heat soaked &/or in the summer months, in general, as well…

Some of those have a schrader valve on the fuel rail?
checking fuel pressure is pretty easy if that’s the case?

Idk if there’s a Canadian moral-equivalent to O’Reilly or Autozone / similar that’ll loan tools w/deposit for free if returned in the allowed time?

Not an especially expensive tool, but also why buy infrequently used tools more often than necessary, if avoidable?
Click to expand...
I already bought the tool on Amazon... $50 shipped with Prime. The pump sound when priming is very very faint so I guess I'll need a new pump anyway. I also have the gas tank venting issue on the car. I spilled fuel like crazy at Costco the other day. Stopped filling after like 50 liters when altough the tank was dead empty. Tried putting in some more and I got a fuel geyser coming out of the fill hole. The Costco attendant wasn't happy. Since then I have to fill it up at the lowest speed possible because it's stop filling all the time. I'm pulling out the rear subframe next winter to do an all bushings replacement so I'll probably suffer with this issue until then.
 
The fiill hose can rot on those if left to sit in the sun and disused and it’s possible the passages to the other side of the saddle tank is clogged not allowing a fill-up at regular speed?

Or the evap vent hose is clogged not allowing rapid fill and the partial source of spillage, possibly?

(and maybe contributing to the hard start / some kind of vapor or mixture or tank pressure issue?).

What’s the evap code?

I wonder if the 850/ P80 motronic android app works for other modules and codes on motronic late 960/90 series for chassis and transmission modules?
Probably, but in the spirit of ‘it the shoe fits,’ have not had occasion to attempt?

I’d imagine many here have bootleg VIDA DICE boxes and laptops, but I’m too lazy to go to that much trouble of keeping even a cheap laptop around they only does VIDA DICE at this time?

android app does all that for the -‘98 P80 models, which is where I stop with my Volvo ownership / ‘just say no’ to Fraud-Mo-Co & imposition of the American business model / skynet for the most part?
 
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Kjets On a Plane said:
The fiill hose can rot on those if left to sit in the sun and disused and it’s possible the passages to the other side of the saddle tank is clogged not allowing a fill-up at regular speed?

Or the evap vent hose is clogged not allowing rapid fill and the partial source of spillage, possibly?

(and maybe contributing to the hard start / some kind of vapor or mixture or tank pressure issue?).

What’s the evap code?

I wonder if the 850/ P80 motronic android app works for other modules and codes on motronic late 960/90 series for chassis and transmission modules?
Probably, but in the spirit of ‘it the shoe fits,’ have not had occasion to attempt?

I’d imagine many here have bootleg VIDA DICE boxes and laptops, but I’m too lazy to go to that much trouble of keeping even a cheap laptop around they only does VIDA DICE at this time?

android app does all that for the -‘98 P80 models, which is where I stop with my Volvo ownership / ‘just say no’ to Fraud-Mo-Co & imposition of the American business model / skynet for the most part?
Click to expand...
I did try my Vida/Dice but it's not compatible with that model/year. I would need VADIS and I don't have that. I'll borrow my son in law's scanner and will try to get some codes out of it.
 

This has the link to the developer’s website for the 850 app (that seems to work to troubleshoot the stupid climate control blend door motors on -‘98 P80s as well?) and also shows compatible OBD2 dongles and older android phones?

I would *guess* it probably works for many codes & hard code resets and tests OBD2 whiteblock similar Motronic 960/90 and their similar Aisin transmission control setups, but haven’t attempted & dangerous to assume?

I wouldn’t be so optimistic for climate control (are those even tied into the OBD2 on those for testing and codes?) or anything body related on the later 960/90 (such as it has much?…probably not?).

I just bought a cheap OBD dongle and borrowed an old android from a friend / didn’t want to invest more than ~$8 on Amazon warehouse deals on all things P80 PITA time-suck & diagnosis?

But was effective for resetting a ‘hard’ TCU code, some active tests and live data w/o taking things to the stupid level & actually paying for a fancy scanner I don’t really want or ‘want to have the need for’ &/or some clunky old seldom used laptop & VIDA DICE unit that only works on (mostly later) Volvos deal with? Can’t complain?

Live data and active tests are nice in standardized form for OBD2, but right to repair laws are still nowhere / in their infancy to avoid unnecessary costs / unreasonable corporate proprietary intellectual property rents (at best?).

If I’m spending any significant $ on silly fancy scanners, it better be able to avoid paying for stupid silly software subscriptions & silly key programming tokens & a good Chinese knockoff that can program chip keys on many / most cars up to ~5-10 years ago, dang it?
 
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Kjets On a Plane said:

This has the link to the developer’s website for the 850 app (that seems to work to troubleshoot the stupid climate control blend door motors on -‘98 P80s as well?) and also shows compatible OBD2 dongles and older android phones?

I would *guess* it probably works for OBD2 Motronic 960/90 and their similar Aisin transmission control setups, but haven’t attempted?

I just bought a cheap OBD dongle and borrowed an old android from a friend / didn’t want to invest more than ~$8 on Amazon warehouse deals on all things P80 PITA time-suck & diagnosis?

But was effective for resetting a ‘hard’ TCU code, some active tests and live data w/o taking things to the stupid level & actually paying for a fancy scanner I don’t really want or ‘want to have the need for?’

Live data and active tests are nice in standardized form for OBD2, but right to repair laws are still nowhere / in their infancy to avoid unnecessary costs / unreasonable corporate proprietary intellectual property rents (at best?).

If I’m spending any significant $ on silly fancy scanners, it better be able to avoid paying for stupid silly software subscriptions & silly key programming tokens & a good Chinese knockoff that can program chip keys on many / most cars up to ~5-10 years ago, dang it?
Click to expand...
I'll have a look at this thanks! I also have issues with the climate control blend door motor on the V90. I thought it was from all the mouse crap that the car was full of from sitting in that field in NJ for years. I had to swap the whole interior for a donor car because the original one was is such a filty state that it was unsavable. It's amazing how these little guys can get into anywhere in a car's interior!

EDIT: I just installed the app on my Android and ordered a compatible VEEPEAK OBDII dongle on Amazon.
 
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^Preach. Rodent abatement is no-joke!

Be very curious to see if the 850 app works or if you can get in touch w/ the developer &/or if someone could provide him a ‘95+ facelift 960/90 w/OBD2 capability to make any necessary changes to make it work on one of those similar auto climate control motronic Aisin whiteblock machines?

If not, well, you’ve still got an OBD2 dongle for silly cheap and android that can probably read generic OBD2 codes, can’t lose too badly / go too wrong probably, eh?
 
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Test results!!

First key ON to POS II not engaging the starter = PSI is 0
Second Key ON to POS II not engaging the starter = 28 PSI than it does this:

https://imgur.com/a/GeFB2oM

Starting the engine after second key ON, engine starts normally and getting around 35 PSI with vacuum still connected to FPR which is on the low side fuel pressure:

https://imgur.com/a/kXhiSei

Shutting the engine off, pressure drops rapidly to zero:

https://imgur.com/a/mevWBDj
 
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poulrais said:
Is 35 PSI of fuel pressure with FPR vacuum line connected enough while the engine is running at idle?
Click to expand...
That's very close to 2.5 bar. Is it supposed to be a 2.5 bar regulator like the N/A 240s?

If it's supposed to be 3 bar it's a bit less than 10psi low.
 
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