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240 Coilovers: The Kyote Way

Jerd

Active member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Location
Vancouver WA
Lol the links dont work and i looked on that site for what hes talking about and i couldn't seem to find the exact parts. I found the threaded sleeves and what not though. :)
 

Nils

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
not sure what the coleman sleeves are made of (aluminium?), the compbrake kit has steel sleeves.
 

Mueller

Active member
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Location
Antioch, CA
apart of weight(and material) Which differences the sleeves have?

only real advantage I see of the steel sleeve is that you could weld it directly to the strut housing...

perhaps the aluminum sleeve could get damaged more easily from flying rocks and debris, but cheap and easy to replace if that happened...
 

crandandall

Turbobricks Low Life
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Location
Portland, Oregon
Here's what I did for the rear, using 10" 2.5" diameter springs and some Ground Control adjusters that I got from somewhere.

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Just made upper spring mounts/seats from a piece of tube welded to a plate. Used a long bolt and washer to hold the adjuster to the trailing arm. The adjusting sleeves are 4" IIRC. They work well with the 10" long springs.
 

cuaz64

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Guatemala
depends on your location :)

not worth the extra money one would have to pay for shipping in my opinion :-P

You are right $85 from Coleman, $118 From compbrake, both shipped to my aunt house in Virgina:-(. I need make the car run first.
 

FunkyStankyChicken

Rad Panda
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
Ithaca NY
I am trying to benchrace some coilovers for my 245+t aucrosser.
My question is how do i match spring rates with inserts. I have a set of new HDs in the standard length and was wondering what would be a ballpark figure spring rate to shoot for.
 

towerymt

the real Towery
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Location
VA, USA
250-300lb is pushing it on off-the-shelf HDs in a 240. I know someone who used 250x10" on HDs and I have used 250x12 on HDs for a while now on my daily driver. As long as you don't put the front really low, it should be OK. It's going to be underdamped, but it doesn't feel like a total mismatch.

Stiff springs on the rear with off the shelf HDs doesn't work very well. There isn't enough rebound damping and the rear wants to move around a lot. It will bounce up a lot after a dip in the road. The stiff variety of the Volvo R-sport rear shocks, or Koni Special red, or Koni Sport Yellow work well on the rear in my experience. I use revalved HDs and that has worked great for me since '04. My rear HDs were valved the same as Dave Barton's for his wagon. However, I specified 325lb springs and corner weights much lower than Dave's wagon, so maybe that valving is just what they use for a "sport" type of application. I spec'd 475lb front springs and they made the compression and rebound slightly stiffer than Dave's specs. Mine are 250/110 Nm front and 300/120 Nm rear.

I use the stiff R-Sport rear shocks on my daily driver with stock springs. It makes the rear of the car pretty stiff even though the spring rate is probably only about 80lb/in. The rear of the car settles out quickly after dips and bumps. It's almost jarring sometimes, and it's kind of like a pickup truck in that it will ride better with some weight in the trunk (like the complete B230FT I had back there recently). The softer valving of the HDs gives a more gentle ride in comparison.
 

towerymt

the real Towery
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Location
VA, USA
I used Coleman 7" sleeves, 2.08" diameter I believe. Aluminum sleeve and aluminum perch. The set screw on the lower perch presses against a small piece of rubber, so it's not metal-to-metal that would damage the threads.

The springs always seem to rub along the top of the threaded section, so having aluminum there was not a bad thing. It wore away the threads near the top of the threaded section, but it was about 4-5" away from where I had the lower perch, so it was a section I would have never used.

I'm going to try these Torrington bearings on the lower perch when I get around to buying short struts and new coilover tubes/hardware. Assuming they work as designed, it will allow the spring to rotate so that it doesn't bind when compressiong or turning.



107582330.jpg
 

Captain Bondo

Exklusiv Zubehör Klub
300+ Club
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
I'm going to try these Torrington bearings on the lower perch when I get around to buying short struts and new coilover tubes/hardware. Assuming they work as designed, it will allow the spring to rotate so that it doesn't bind when compressiong or turning.

I don't follow... both perches and the spring should all rotate with the strut, nothing should bind. The upper perch should be able to turn on the strut mount bearing like stock.

My upper perch sits right against the bottom of the strut mount spherical bearing and rotates on it.

If the spring is in some way fixed up top and the upper perch is not free, meaning the spring and upper perch want to remain stationary when the strut is turned, something is wrong up top IMO.

Not a great design for a few reasons, to be relying on a bearing on the lower perch that continuously collects all kinds of crud....
 

towerymt

the real Towery
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Location
VA, USA
The spring can rotate, but it's certainly not a free and easy rotation. There's a lot of friction between the upper perch and the spherical bearing. I tried small torrington bearings in the upper spring perch between the perch and the camber plate. Hypercoil hydraulic spring perches are really expensive, so I thought I'd give the larger bearings a try. They were ~$25/pr, so no big loss if they don't work out.
 

Captain Bondo

Exklusiv Zubehör Klub
300+ Club
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
There's a lot of friction between the upper perch and the spherical bearing.

It should be touching the inner "race" of the spherical only, and they rotate together- there shouldn't be any friction, since they are turning together. The only load-bearing surfaces that slide against each other should be those of the strut mount bearing. That's the purpose of the strut mount bearing.

All I am saying is it sounds like you might be trying to bandaid an upper perch that does not interface to the strut mount correctly, and given that, personally I would more be tempted to fix the problem rather than the symptom. There is a perfectly good bearing in the strut mount that is supposed to carry the suspension load and allow the strut assembly to rotate.
 

FunkyStankyChicken

Rad Panda
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
Ithaca NY
Well now onto my next question, If i was to go with revalving my HDs whats a good middle of the road spring rate front and rear for a 245 used for mostly autocross?
 
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