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940 940SE electrical disaster/ignition switch/charging and starting problems

Kjets On a Plane

Active member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Location
Californicated Oregone
Where do I even begin? This car, intermittently, would not always light all the warning lights when you would turn the key on.
Further, it would sometimes stall once in a great while, and refuse to crank once in a great while and has an intermittent battery drain.

For once, I've actually been present while it would do some of this instead of just hearing about it, only to come try to test it or make it do it and not really have an answer.

Ok so early on in the game, the battery cables looked like hell. I examined all the cables closely, scrubbed them (other grounds and cables as well and reinstalled). Seemed to mostly work. It also got a new battery to replace the ancient one. Drove for about a week and the key was left on for maybe 5-10 mins and it hasn't been able to be cranked and started since. At the best of times, all charging voltage good and key not ever left on, it would crank a little slow. The late model starter is original and probably tired. I have a good early one for it.

So I dug into it a little. Checked connections, verified that the battery was too drained to start any car (it was), put my test light on the starter solenoid wire from the ignition switch and observed something odd; in "off" and "accessory", no light (expected), in "on/run/II" dim test light, turn the key (with a tiny bit of force) toward "start/III" and no light again, turn the key to "start/III" firmly and BRIGHT light. Just to be sure, I checked my other 740, and it has absolutely no lighting of the test light except when firmly turned to "start/III." I've had one other 940SE same year and options wagon do this to me, but more severe where it would pass a little more current to the small starter solenoid wire in "on/run/II" and other positions that the solenoid would stick on for a bit and starter would be powered down, but bendix gear would not disengage right away. I suspect that this one is getting ready to do this. Anyone know if a 760 or 960 uses the same part # ignition switch? Is there a # on it? I'd rather throw a used one in it that someone else got bent over and paid a million dollars for that's recently replaced if 760/960 with late tilt wheel dash is the same (you'd think so). The other thing that has me is that I can't for the life of me remember how to get the lower column trim off. I've got the steering wheel and contact reel off properly and upper trim and knee bolster. Where the tilt lever pokes through the lower trim is just a round hole, screws don't seem accessible. If I tug sideways on it I see it pulling on a sheetmetal "fast on nut" on the other side over by the ignition lock cylinder. Looks like that has to come off? Looks like a huge pita to remove and stick back on...any easier way? Sort of hard to imagine building a car like that...hard to get off I get, but on the assy line, usually easily installed is common...this doesn't look easily installed with the plastic trim slipped over. I did pull the connector off the ignition switch and my dim test light problem went away...this was a pita having to carefully plug the air bag in and set it aside scared to death with the battery on.

Next, there is the tired starter, maybe as the result of the ignition switch always passing some current to the solenoid in "on/run/II"
, and it is a crappy late model starter that's original that I've changed a ton of. Still, I'm a little reluctant to change the starter until the ignition switch tests out good since I don't want to do ugly things to the "new" good condition early model starter soon to replace the wimpy late model junk.

Earlier on this journey of discovery, the warning lights wouldn't always come on bright in "on/run/II" with the engine not running. I think I've got that traced down. If you ground the exciter wire on the alt, they always do. Charging voltage at this point is ~12.6V with no accessories on whatever and it idling or revved to the moon. The belt and crank pulley have little/minimal slippage, I can roll the motor over from the alt pulley as it sits. Also, sometimes a couple idiot lights would come on dimly like it wasn't yet started. Often you'd rev it and they'd go out and the headlights would get brighter and they'd slowly dim out as it "charged" a bit. The voltage regulator/brush pack ohms out and works great in another 740, so that's not it. I'm going to swap a known working minty 92+ brand new bosch 940Turbo alt into it. Anything I should look out for given the multitude of potential electrical problems with this ride? Anyone ever have a lazy alt cause intermittent battery drain/lighting of the warning lamps and still charge, but not charge much or very well? Any potential problems with using the much higher continuous capacity later alt? Ground wire to the alt is just fine. Seems to have a bad diode. Commutator is worn, but not all the way (seen much worse that ran fine).

Any other tips? What an annoying model.
It is cozy, and it has a very straight no rust black 945 body with pretty nice gray interior, but plenty of the usual 7/9 problems (back doors don't always open, for one), its probably cheaper to keep it. Has an intake gasket leak, but very tight good compression B230FT, super tight T25 and pretty solid AW-71 (after I reinstalled the magnets in the oil pan jimbo left out and did check balls and cleaned the screen and tailshaft). Seems better to hang onto it. Shocks still work, including the nivomats it would seem. Pulled almost brand new bilstein TCs for it and some 240 rear springs to ditch the nivos when the time comes.
Climate control mostly works, a/c doesn't...no surprise there. Not sure if the "floor" vent vacuum servo is any good.
 
since you have the "switch out" - go ahead and open it up ..you'll find CRAPOLA
inside...if the contact strips aren't shredded - a good cleaning and lube w/some
white lithium grease and yer good to go again....
 
Update:
Ignition switch cracked apart. Contacts all shredded, detents all worn out and sloppy...230K miles...it is done. Gritted my teeth and spent $65 and had a replacement OE volvo one within 2 hours on a saturday...I felt ok about it in the end...price wasn't outrageous, electrical switch unique to 940SE model...then again I hate paying to work and hate paying more than I would on other brands for failure prone volvo parts...usually I only tolerated volvos because they made the same models so long that one could always find new used parts on dead volvos..not so for a 940SE so much. Replaced it. . My test light glows much fainter at the starter solenoid wire, but still glows ever so slightly in "run". Given that it is better, all I can think is that maybe something else remains on that circuit besides the switch that is somehow passing current through the switch..very odd. Or maybe just normal for one of these lousy cars with about 10 miles of wiring in it. Observed that the ignition lock cylinder is getting a little sticky and the $$$ high security key is pretty worn. Told them, if it gets notably stickier at all, I'll remove it right then and there and don't turn the key backwards at that point, and I will get rid of the retainer and drill and tap the housing to retain it with a bolt. That way, when the failure prone BS design zillion dollar high security key lock cylinder and key takes a crap, one can undo the bolt without turning it and take all the tumblers out but one or two and file the crap out of those so its nice and loose but holds the key in and call it a day...no one picks locks to steal volvos anyway, and broke people who drive a 940SE 20+ years later don't have money for high security keys or any of that nonsense.


Replaced the alt. Car charges at 14.1 cold with the brand new battery left to charge over night, 13.8-9 warm. Noticed the battery + cable getting hot where the cabin power wire joins the B+ with everything switched on...cleaned that and coated it, seems fine. Replaced the shot accessory bushings with poly. Belt isn't perfect, but pretty decent still. Left it alone. Added one more alt ground wire. With the updated 92+ 110A e-fan car alt, with everything on to the max, it still maintains 13.7-8ish idling and maintains charging volts no problem as soon as you rev it. Pretty slick mild upgrade. Those alts last forever and are designed to power the efan on later cars, so I think it will last a long long time. It was an almost brand new bosch replacement for one of those cars.

Replaced the tired late starter with a healthy early one. Very fast solid cranking now. No more wimpy late starter.

Still was getting some intermittent lighting of the warning lamps even when grounding the alt exciter wire. Took the cluster out WITHOUT breaking any of that HORRIBLE design surround. What a torture device. Horrible plastic, horrible design for the retainer screws, can't put a service loop in any of the wiring plugs in that area or cluster to save their lives or vac line for the boost gauge...have to painstakingly carefully lay out a micro-fiber cloth to avoid scratching the cluter window. Horribe. Resoldered the PCB and all the gauges and warning lights come on just fine every time it would seem now. The speedometer still doesn't work properly, but she doesn't have the $75 to have the watch guy in vancouver fix it. I don't much like driving the car with the misleading speedo, because it reads at all, but wildly incorrectly on the highway when you most need it given they will write tickets for 10 over downhill or something incredibly awful here. Some shyster car lot probably pulled the SRS light...I checked the codes and reset it. Seems fine. Idiots.

Changed out the black like tea leaves fuel filter with black gunk on both ends...nice Chinese cheap filter that I've had so many problems with. Replaced with genuine bosch 601.

Ignition components seem ok.

Blew out cowl drains.

Had the joy of digging out the rear door panel on one door with it jammed shut.

Welded up the cheapie walker muffler where it had cracked...seems to keep them going another 2-3 years or so until they just disintegrate.

Drilled the tails since they were taking on water and contact cleaned them. Fixed that.

Replaced the cheapie intake gasket that was leaking and reamed all the crud out of the turbo version of the fitting where the flame trap would be and enlarged with a drill. Seems to have slowed or stopped the leaking and any significant oil consumption, but the box looks kinda cruddy (not terrible for 230K, but ready for a change...like they changed oil, but used questionable dino oil). Motor is real tight at least. Replaced intake gasket with nice soft green one. No more lopey idle and whatnot. Throttle body didn't look too cruddy, but was mis-adjusted.

Replaced a bunch of rotted vacuum hoses.

To date i've greased wheel bearings, replaced cone bushings, replaced a couple ball joints, needs a steering rack, done brakes (turned some decent junkyard rotors and new thick used junkyard evenly worn oe volvo pads).

Runs and drives pretty decent and confidently now.

In stark contrast, I put about 50 mins total time on a totally beat corolla and didn't need to use any parts whatever compared to this pampered thing with a box full of receipts until this broke owner got it and basically hasn't had to put money into it (but hasn't really hacked it up either) for 3+ years, but its of course falling apart being a 20 year old volvo. Even scraping mostly new used pars for pennies on the volvo, it easily needed $1-200+ in parts needing an ign swich, used near new alt, and starter and a lot of time as well as gaskets and vac hose in fuel grade for the engine bay.. About the same profit margin, corolla owner totally grateful to have all lights work and trans flushed. Volvo owner fussing over every additional 20 dollars here and there lol amnd 10 hours time or something insane, tons of tools and experience. Corolla, just common easy diagnosis without all the experience, time or any special tools or knowledge. I just with toyota made a well painted thick sheetmetal wagon and I could close the book on these volvo things forever. What a stressful, knuckle biting, swedish piece of crap. Looks inviting...black 945se with decent receipts and no wrecks and decent interior. Im waiting for the day that the heater core takes a crap. I've been pretty good about keeping on top of the cooling system so that doesn't happen, but you never know. They do last on these, but it doesn't take a real big whoops to pop it and wind up with 4 painful hours to replace it and deal with the vacuum servos and dreaded climate control mess these ones get.
 
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Wow. First I thought this was your car... Then I realized you obviously work on them...

Please return that 945 SE to someone who knows them, loves them, and cares for them. They're great machines, and are very rare, especially in that color combination.

Sad that the owner is looking for lowest possible repair... I'd take it off both your hands and give it a great home.
 
Well, she's 21ish, what do you expect? She knows it hung together 3 or 4 years and she had about 1000 into it and barely put a dime into it other than oil and bare minimum...she knows she has to spend now and it's cheaper to spend some now and use it than buy something else. Sure a lot of stuff I'm fixing now deteriorated, but it didn't strand her and she kept oil and coolant in it and not too many things spiraled seriously out of control affecting all systems.

It's not a real great car for her, but she wants to keep it even though it probably easily going to need a grand or 2 in the next year and like regular attention and nickel and dime you like the volvos do.

The instrument cluster and column trim totally chaps my ass to do on one of these. I'm shocked it didn't shatter like many easily do if you so much as sneeze. No extra length or service loops in the plugs anywhere is totally criminal. I have small hands and it is still just awful. You don't see sh1t like that ever on a Benz, bimmer much or Honda or Toyota ever really. I've done it hundreds of times, and regular 940 is already no fun, this is even worse. Even 240s they give you not great wire length, but it's not deeplly recessed...just pull out and unplug it all easy enough...not criminal anyway.

High security keys are a huge pain...looks like that ymos cylinder is pretty proprietary...looks like a Benz, but not in the dash. They have key problems too when they get old. Tempting to tig weld a different tailpiece and housing bushing to regular ignition cylinder for just a 740/940...they basically never have any issues and have a key that can be punched or copied easily enough. I think most are Neiman manufacture...ymos are always on Benz and always have problems. 92+ are Neiman and don't seem to have problems.
 
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Did you try some gun oil in the cylinder?

The 140 ignitions started drying up and sticking 25 years later, and the 240's are starting to show the same problem.

Or did I miss some thing in those walls of text?

:)

:-P
 
240s you can take apart or buy a new one if you have to or punch the key a skosh high to account for the wear. Usually solvable problems.

I sat it on its end, flushed it with wd-40 and then soaked in light tool oil and lock ease over night. It helped a lot, and I told her if it gets notably sticker at all ill come out and pull it out and don't turn it back to "lock"...whole lot easier than drilling those German tumblers...cheaper and easier to start it with a screwdriver for a week until one can rebuild or replace the cylinder.

Wih the bmws that have lock and key problems they sell you replacements or a rebuild kit with the wear items that is mostly painless. Benz mostly too to their credit, though it is $$$$$$$$z. Volvo not so kind...I think even USA 760s got a normal key...I think it has to be a 1991 940se with ymos parts now that I look at it. Fat chance of finding a lock for it and making that key not easy (could be done on a small mill or engraver maybe)...
 
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I went through this cylinder problem on my SE recently. When I received the car it had a broken key in the cylinder and after hours of messing with it I gave up and figured the best solution was replacing the whole column. IIRC the column was out of a late 80's 760.

Really stupid design making the cylinder housing part of the column.
 
I went through this cylinder problem on my SE recently. When I received the car it had a broken key in the cylinder and after hours of messing with it I gave up and figured the best solution was replacing the whole column. IIRC the column was out of a late 80's 760.

Really stupid design making the cylinder housing part of the column.

I don't know if you realize all you had to do was turn the lock to the run position, push a pin that is pretty much hidden on the bottom of the casting and the lock cylinder just pops right out. The same is true for the 240, 740, 940 etc. Most likely, every Volvo built since the mid 1970s.
 
Yeah active retainer. Turn to accessory and push the button. Button on top on these. If too jammed to extract the key and pick or bump it forward with a filed key, you get to drill it and destroy the tumblers. I'd bet there's another car out there that uses that cylinder, i just dont know shat it is. The cylinder and key is 75ish from Volvo, which I just grind my teeth to pay for something with keys that are a pain in the butt. I don't even know if they include a key anymore...this could get expensive and mis-matched easily and fast.

It looks like, if I can get a face cap for it I can take it apart and replace the tumblers which is probably all that is worn, but the key is also worn...Probably just try to find a new or excellent condition used one with key or file tumblers so it's loose and not as secure, but always works. Of the many Volvo problems I've had or heard of, theft has never been on the list hahaha.
 
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I don't know if you realize all you had to do was turn the lock to the run position, push a pin that is pretty much hidden on the bottom of the casting and the lock cylinder just pops right out. The same is true for the 240, 740, 940 etc. Most likely, every Volvo built since the mid 1970s.

I was aware of that however it wouldn't budge, spent hours on that POS. It was pretty hammered when I got it from someone else trying to remove it.

A new tumbler & Key from Volvo was more than than a whole new column to my doorstep (included the switch stalks, column trim, steering wheel & ignition switch as well)
 
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