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FCP Groton not honoring Bosal warranty

proto57

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
A head's up on FCP's policy on defective Bosal parts: They will not send a new one out. You have to buy a second one, or put a credit card on file first, then they will decide if they will honor the warranty when they receive the part back, and refund the money... or not charge you for two!

This surprised me, as I never had a problem with them before, and have bought from them for years. But since they will not send me a new part to get me back on the road, I of course cannot use them again. It looks like I just lost $100 for a new header pipe, and $12 shipping, and also, $16.50 for two new gaskets.

Can anyone suggest a good supplier of stock exhaust for Volvo 240's?

Here is my email to Bosal, hoping they well honor the warranty:

Hi: I received a defective Bosal header pipe for my 1988 Volvo 240. The hidden weld between the two down pipes is either non-existent or not complete, as exhaust blows forward out of the "crotch". Unfortunately I cannot see the weld, as it is too far in.

FCP Groton will not honor the warranty, unless I purchase another pipe, and send the old one back to them, first. Of course this is unacceptable for two reasons: For one, I cannot at the present time afford a new pipe, and two, I have no guarantee that they will ever refund my payment if I did have it to risk. I was hoping they could send me a new pipe, but they refused. They actually suggested I remove the old pipe, send it to them, and wait for a new one! So I am basically stuck with a noisy car, which leaks exhaust into the passenger compartment.

I was wondering if you would consider honoring the warranty yourself, as I know you have a good name and stand behind your products. If there is a department local to me in New York State, which I could contact, I would appreciate your forwarding this email to them, or sending me the address.

I will copy the invoice they sent me after purchase, below. Thank you for your time and attention.
 
Sounds about right...not an outright refusal, but they are just trying to cover their ass. There is a user here called "FCPGroton" or some such. They sell some junk, but if you are buying cheap parts of questionable brand, buyer beware. Of course, anything of quality and repairable is rapidly disappearing in this world, for better and worse.

Even the stealership no longer sells you the fiberglass insulated OE pipes.

I had the cashflow, so I bought a starla? or some such and an OE volvo at the same time and compared them and sent the one back to volvo (for $300) for a 1993. Worse yet, I had to use the adapter spacer ring on both (not a huge deal, just mildly annoying since the original pipe didn't need it).

What year car is this? The Bosal parts usually are pretty decent. Nice thick flat flange, fairly thick wall tube. Got a pic?

If the part is a quality part otherwise and you used good gaskets and new hardware at the flange and it isn't too pingy and doesn't leak, I'd have a muffler shop weld it up and make sure the engine mounts are any good so it doesn't crack. If you can do a good weld in place, it shouldn't cost much and should save you time, shipping and money and last well.

Lousy to get bad parts, but I'd just get it welded if it is a well made piece (most Bosal stuff is) and see if groton will take like $20 (or whatever the weld ran you) off your next order. Gets you back on the road sooner, saves shipping, probably will need parts for your car anyway (who doesn't need an oil or air filter and their pricing on the OE volvo or mann parts is pretty decent and inventory/shipping is okay). You can work a fair angle on both sides for this without creating a lot mistrust I think. Heck, find a buddy that welds and wheel and deal on both sides. Most Bosal pipes in the past treated me well from memory, but you never know anymore.

Anymore, I find good used OE quiet pipes and repair them and make sure the engine mounts don't move and hangers are perfect. Cheap, effective, no BS or quality problems. Heck, maybe repair your old one and send this one back and be money ahead! Get only OE gaskets and nuts for the flange and clean it real well. That's what I'd do anyway when and where possible.

The new OE volvo exhausts sold recently I believe are Bosal (come in sections and over-axle) and last excellently. Not sure what is sold now. Again, I look for brand new used OE.

I'm sorry money is so tight, I think groton is trying to help a bit, but fronting the cash is a mild PITA. Nature of owning an old car and doing business really. If you were a business, money is tight for you on their end and you have to beware people scamming you for 2 pipes...understandable. Even costco, which is very flexible on returns, makes you bring the old part back, even though they don't hassle you on exact condition etc. Best of luck, hope you manage okay. I think a good solution can be found with the right parts/people/resources.
 
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it sounds like they will honor the warranty, but they will not however send you an advance replacement. Those are 2 different things. Not sending advance replacements is common among internet resellers.

If you bought it at autozone wouldn't they expect you to have the part in hand when you went to make the exchange? If you didn't you'd have to buy a new one and return the defective one once you had it out of the car.

If you just installed it and found that it leaks there shouldn't be any issue reusing the gaskets.
 
That is normal policy/procedure for refund/replacement of a new part that is defective, at most places. You have to realize there are many people buying parts, & installing them on their cars, who basically do not know hat they're doing, and break the part, then want a refund.

FCP is merely "covering their arse" to make sure you didn't break it. I've been quite happy with FCPG's service .

Also, you should check your motor mounts, trans mount & the pipe bracketry on the bell hsg, . I'll dare to say some if not all are broken.

Volvo 240s have weak MMs to begin with. And broken MMs cause all sorts of problems, from mechanical, to electrical.
 
Even if you don't screw it up, if you say the pipe is bad, they aren't going to just believe you. You can usually return parts with receipt in most legit business these days or have someone make it right.

For example, even if you bought a bad toyota with an allegedly sticking throttle, would you really expect them to send you a second one no questions asked in advance? They could lose twice doing that...you could still injure yourself and sue them, they admitted some guilt by compensating you in advance, and they are out another toyota, and can't examine the other one to make them right for you/everyone else that has one if that is their goal (at least give them the chance).

I doubt you will find even the most upstanding, quality parts selling, excellent customer service, white glove business does that. At best they will exchange/refund and if they are really nice they will let someone else out of house do the repair/second opinion and won't cry about it (like a weld if thats all it is).

Expect to be doing this more often, and be very picky about looking at all the brands/quality construction of parts. I'd rather spend a little time carefully examining parts and eating slightly higher prices at local warehouses than go through this shipping song and dance. My time is worth something over saving that nickel. It is a sign of the times. When the economy was great and volvos were dirt cheap, quality parts were overflowing on shelves for not a lot new and used and people had brand new company cars, it was another story. Even at the best of times, there must be some trust and margin on both sides...hard to do that in a skinny economy with a bunch of garbage and being broke, I totally know that.
 
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Thanks for the feedback...

What year car is this? The Bosal parts usually are pretty decent. Nice thick flat flange, fairly thick wall tube. Got a pic?

No pic. You are right, it is a very nice looking header pipe, with thick tubing and a nice thick flange. It is just a defective weld from the factory. The problem is in the weld I can't see, inside the "Y". I assume that both down tubes are flattened and welded inside there... and they either missed the weld completely, or in part.

...I'd have a muffler shop weld it up and make sure the engine mounts are any good so it doesn't crack. If you can do a good weld in place, it shouldn't cost much and should save you time, shipping and money and last well.

I may take it off and weld it myself, with my MIG welder. The trouble is that the original weld is inaccessable, so I will have to make up a piece, like a "sheet metal diaper", and put it in the crotch of the header, then weld to both side pipes. It will be a real pain in the ass. I wish it was simply an outer weld, I would have just slid under the car and did it by now.

I'm sorry money is so tight, I think groton is trying to help a bit, but fronting the cash is a mild PITA. Nature of owning an old car and doing business really. If you were a business, money is tight for you on their end and you have to beware people scamming you for 2 pipes...understandable.

Well yes, but all things being equal, risk of me losing if they refuse to honor the warranty, or them losing if I did not send the bad pipe back, who should take the risk? One of us has to. I think it should be them... I've already invested in the time and two gaskets to put it in, and now, I would have to pay shipping to have a new one sent to me, and removal and install of the new pipe... so I've already lost, they should share some of the pain. Well, like I said, risk... this won't cost then anything in the end, as Bosal will or should honor the warranty to them. They basically just have to trust me to send back the bad pipe, something I would expect them to do, as I have been a good customer for years.
 
FCP is merely "covering their arse" to make sure you didn't break it. I've been quite happy with FCPG's service .

Also, you should check your motor mounts, trans mount & the pipe bracketry on the bell hsg, . I'll dare to say some if not all are broken.

Volvo 240s have weak MMs to begin with. And broken MMs cause all sorts of problems, from mechanical, to electrical.

Of course you are correct about the Volvo's MM reputation. In this case, though, the problem is a bad weld in the "Y", where the two downpipes are welded together (or not!) deep where you can't see. The car leaked the moment I started it, and had not driven anywhere. So even if I had bad mounts, they were not a factor in this case.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback and opinions. I was enough of a "squeaky wheel" I suppose, because they changed their mind, and are sending me a new pipe. I just got the email, in response to the CC I sent when I wrote to Bosal.
 
just remove it and pay someone $20 to weld it at the muffler shop. think about it, how much is the postage both ways? you'd be eating that no matter what.

edit: late to the above 3 replies, carry on
 
just remove it and pay someone $20 to weld it at the muffler shop. think about it, how much is the postage both ways? you'd be eating that no matter what.

Thanks, Coupe... I would have welded it myself, actually, but they have agreed to honor the warranty without buying a second pipe, first.

I'm glad because as I said, since the weld is inside the "Y", it would have involved cutting and bending a patch over the crotch, something which would not have been elegant to say the least.

I want to add that I think I was bothered by this most because I was told that they would see if my card was on file, and that then they could "check it for fraud". I think my conversation got dicey after that comment.
 
They have honored the replacement on every part that I've sent back to them. Of course I worked with their method and it worked out just fine.

If you aren't going to work with their method then I would take the pipe off and weld it. You don't need to put a patch on the hole. You grind it so it's clean metal if needed. Then weld it up. I can usually fill a hole with my MIG welder no problem. I know that Y junction is a bit hard to get to the inside of. But you should be able to fill the crack with weld.
 
Response to FCP not honoring warranty

It was never a question of whether or not FCP would honor the warranty. We just need to do our due diligence on any return before sending out a new part. We want to make sure that the part is indeed defective and not just the wrong part so that when we do send it to you again you won't run into the same problem and be in a worse situation. We realize the frustration you have when you receive an incorrect or defective part, and our main concern is fixing it asap and getting you back on the road. As the previous poster stated it is very common for a company to ask to hold the funds on their card until the defective item gets sent back. We don't do this to be an inconvenience to you, it's the only way we can be certain that we will get the part in question back to us. We also have no problem at times making an exception to policy when needed. The case today was one of those times we would have and did make an exception and the customer will have his part tomorrow. This decision wasn't made due to this post, this decision was made because we honor our warranty. The customer was obviously upset for the inconvenience this caused him which I personally emailed him twice with an apology and admit that our conversation got off to a bad start by me not clarifying right away that one way or the other we would ship a part out asap. As I stated it is never our intention to ever send out any part that is defective or wrong and from the majority of the feedback that we've gotten from our loyal customer base like yourselves you feel that our return policy is fair. If you ever feel that it is not fair or we could be doing something better, please feel free to email me directly at max@fcpgroton.com on this discussion or anything.

thank you,
Max Rossi (VP Sales/Client Relations)
 
It was never a question of whether or not FCP would honor the warranty. We just need to do our due diligence on any return before sending out a new part. We want to make sure that the part is indeed defective and not just the wrong part so that when we do send it to you again you won't run into the same problem and be in a worse situation... etc. (see above)

thank you,
Max Rossi (VP Sales/Client Relations)

Max, with all due respect that is a mis-characterization of my original conversation with FCP. "We want to make sure that the part is indeed defective and not just the wrong part so that when we do send it to you again you won't run into the same problem and be in a worse situation.", for one thing, since it was made clear to your staff what the problem was: That is, that the part fit just fine, and that it was simply defective. There is no way, after my conversation with Mike, that he could have thought there was any possibility that the part was the wrong type or number. The fact that it was a leaky pipe which fit, was perfectly understood.

Another reason we know this is incorrect is because I told you on the phone that I was once sent a wrong ball joint by FCP, that you sent a replacement to get me going. You said that was a "different case", as it was a wrong part, and not a defective part. So again, your post here is incorrect... you fully knew I had the correct part, and that it was in the car, and only defective.

And also: there is another problem with your coming here, and inaccurately countering my original discussion.... because I was first speaking with Mike. You are therefore addressing some points of mine, which you never heard in person. By the time you and I spoke, those points were settled, and understood, and so your post is in error.

We don't do this to be an inconvenience to you, it's the only way we can be certain that we will get the part in question back to us.

And therein lies the problem. We have two parties here, and of course one of the two has to take some risk in correcting the problem. Either I take a $100+ risk that you will not honor the warranty (a genuine concern since your staff seemed somewhat incredulous that the problem with the pipe could even exist), or the vendor takes a... what, $40-$60 risk, the cost of the part to you, wholesale? And you, the large retailer, with the air conditioned offices and gigantic warehouses, staff, and resources, is asking me, the guy on his back in his driveway trying to keep his Volvo working, should assume the risk of a second $100+ transaction to correct your error? That seems pretty unfair to me, as I did nothing wrong but trust you for my business.

So when I am told that you will not be the one taking the risk, and I must, I disagree. I am the one who has already spent the time under my car putting the defective part in, and ruined $16.50 in new gaskets, and spent over $100. At a minimum, your policy says I must either leave my car on stands, out of service, and trust that you will send the right part after I send the bad part back, which if it did not happen would leave me stranded for several days and out $100+. Or the other option, that I give you a card on file, that if you decided the warranty does not apply, I pay well over $200 for two parts, one of which I know to be defective. Or third, that I buy the new part, risk it being defective again, and again, risk that you will decide not to honor the warranty, and not refund my money.

So the point is, I feel that since you have the least to lose, and Bosal and you are the cause of the problem, that it is you, and not I, who should take the risk for your, and Bosal's, errors.

The case today was one of those times we would have and did make an exception and the customer will have his part tomorrow.

I'm afraid my fears were realized when I received the new part: It is a Starla, not a Bosal. I wanted a Bosal, specifically ordered a Bosal, told you guys it was a Bosal, and even wrote Bosal when you first refused to send one out to me to replace the defective one. It was completely clear this was the case, in every way. The Starla header pipe is pretty junky looking compared to the Bosal, despite the invisible, bad weld. It looks thinner, is of poorer construction, and with weld splatters all over.

Why did you switch brands on me?

I never mind Starla parts behind the cat, but for a header, the Bosal is superior, and what I bought and asked for. The point again is, you wanted me to trust you with my $100, or my car out of commission... but look what would have happened if I did that. I would have been stuck with a second part I do not want.

Not sure what I will do now, this is so damned frustrating. Fix the bad pipe and send the Starla back? Try to have Bosal send me a new pipe, again? Put in a Starla pipe which I did not want, and would never have bought in the first place?

This decision wasn't made due to this post, this decision was made because we honor our warranty.

If true Max, you are not in a position to claim this, since you waited until I complained outside of our conversation in which you refused me. I was left with no satisfaction until I CC'd you with my request to Bosal, and wrote here on this forum. If you would have simply done this the first time, on the phone, then you could claim you decided independantly of my post and Bosal email. But by waiting until I had to write Bosal and this post, you cannot say this.

Explain to me again why as an FCP customer I should go through all this, again?
 
They have honored the replacement on every part that I've sent back to them. Of course I worked with their method and it worked out just fine.

I'm glad it worked out with you in the past. It has for me, too. Everything is fun until one day, it is not.

If you aren't going to work with their method then I would take the pipe off and weld it. You don't need to put a patch on the hole. You grind it so it's clean metal if needed. Then weld it up. I can usually fill a hole with my MIG welder no problem. I know that Y junction is a bit hard to get to the inside of. But you should be able to fill the crack with weld.

Thanks dl242gt, but we have different case here, and I would need a patch. I know that most two-into-one headers allow what you you say, as all welds are visible (OEM, Starla, others...), but this Bosal arrangement is different. I've tried to describe it here, but it is difficult... I'll try again. Apparently, during manufacture, the two downpipes are flattened on one edge near the bottom, so that a straight weld can hold them together along that edge, and seal it.

Then after that is done, a "Y" box is slipped over this juncture, completely hiding it deep in the "Y" box. The "Y" box is then welded to these downpipes. The bad or missing weld is the one which I have absolutely no access to, unless I were to cut off the "Y" box. By the time the downpipes emerge from the forward edge of the "Y" box, they are round, and cannot be welded together. This is why I would have to use sheet metal, and form a "diaper" patch in here, to weld into the crotch of the two downpipes.

And there is no crack.

If I have to... and since FCP sent me a pretty cheap looking Starla pipe instead of a new Bosal, I may do the imaginative welding... if I do, I'll post pics of the project on a new post, and the problem with the original, to maybe help others who have this problem.
 
It is not our intent to counter point any of the customers who have a problem with an order. You have a right to voice your concerns to the public, but we are mainly here to have an avenue to listen to our customers and give support when needed. We will be happy to look into and address your problem please contact us at 1-877-634-0063 for a full refund or exchange if not satisfied.

Kind Regards,
Max
 
It is not our intent to counter point any of the customers who have a problem with an order. You have a right to voice your concerns to the public, but we are mainly here to have an avenue to listen to our customers and give support when needed. We will be happy to look into and address your problem please contact us at 1-877-634-0063 for a full refund or exchange if not satisfied.

Kind Regards,
Max

Thank you Max. I will wrap up and ship the Starla pipe you accidentally sent me yesterday, in exchange for the Bosal pipe I originally ordered and wanted. Here are the numbers from my original order, which was the defective Bosal header pipe:

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Qty | Product |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1 | Volvo 240 Header Pipe 1989 (Bosal) |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Qty | SKU Label | Tracking | Ship Date |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 1 | 840-101 | 1Z745T9T0363484925 | 8/2/2011 |
| Header Pipe |
| 1 | 35300 | 1Z745T9T0363484925 | 8/2/2011 |
| Exhaust Plug |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

When I receive the proper Bosal replacement, and the return label, I will switch it on my car, and send you the defective one. Thanks, Rich.
 
I don't have a dog in the fight here, but I'd like to add a couple of comments regarding this complaint. It seems that the customer experienced what amounts to "inconvenience" with regard to getting his part exchanged. He was not treated rudely or singled out for any mistreatment by the supplier. Yet, the customer found it necessary to post a misleading statement about the supplier on the internet and bring hundreds or thousands of other people into the fray.

I have worked in the customer service field for over 30 years and I can tell you that this supplier is going far beyond what most companies consider appropriate customer service. When the vice president of a company responds to someone who is inconvenienced, you are looking at a company who cares about its customers and its reputation. I find it irresponsible, to say the least, that the OP considers it standard practice to threaten the reputation of a company based on a matter of inconvenience, with a simple, straightforward resolution.

Based on what I have learned on this thread, I'll personally go out of my way to do business with fcpgroton, and not the other way around.

Lazarus
 
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