For Autocross fans. Show your stuff!

[msweeney]

What tires are you running? That is bias-ply camber and street car toe and will promote lots of understeer, which is the opposite of what you want in autox. I'd want 1/8" out front, 1/16" in rear total minimum to start, and around 3.0-4.25* on the camber in front for radials, depending on tire construction, and about -1* in the rear to start. Dampers I can't help with until I know what you're running

RT660's. I don't think you can get that sort of camber using stock suspension arms on a Miata.

It doesn't understeer at all (unless it's on-throttle oversteer), pretty well balanced and the rear end is pretty active (TWSS). About the only time an end slides out it's the back.

Copy. It's not always balance, sometimes it's capacity that matters, even if the balance isn't quite there. Also, you can't get there on camber for a Spec Miata, but you can get a lot further than you are and it would help. I think I remember setting up Spec Miata's with around 3 degrees front, but I hate that class and haven't been in one of those things since 2018 or so, so I might be off. I love the Miata, BTW, just not SM and it's weird driving quirks.

 

[JohnMc]

I meant to say on-throttle understeer there, that's really the only time it understeers. Occasionally I'd get a brief bit of initial understeer, brief push, but then the back end would start to run the show.

Spec Miata is using real racing tires, TOyo RR's for dry, basically a 40TW rating. I would imagine you'd need a different alignment for that sort of tire. I'm not sure that translates into the proper alignment for any other kind of tire. The 200TW RT660's are pretty sticky, but not like a 40TW racing tire.

EDIT: And PS - this isn't a track car, it's driven on the street, to work, to NC every once in a while, blasting around country roads around here. Something that would work for a race car wouldn't really be appropriate for a street car that gets autocrossed 6 or 7 times a year.

 

[msweeney]

I meant to say on-throttle understeer there, that's really the only time it understeers. Occasionally I'd get a brief bit of initial understeer, brief push, but then the back end would start to run the show.

Spec Miata is using real racing tires, TOyo RR's for dry, basically a 40TW rating. I would imagine you'd need a different alignment for that sort of tire. I'm not sure that translates into the proper alignment for any other kind of tire. The 200TW RT660's are pretty sticky, but not like a 40TW racing tire.

EDIT: And PS - this isn't a track car, it's driven on the street, to work, to NC every once in a while, blasting around country roads around here. Something that would work for a race car wouldn't really be appropriate for a street car that gets autocrossed 6 or 7 times a year.

Copy that, I am used to doing a setup and setdown for every session, so I figured you were aligning for the weekend only, my mistake. Honestly, I struggle with this with my club/vintage clients because sometimes forget that not everyone is interested in racing at the level I enjoy, and sometimes my recommendations are a little too hardcore. I just really like winning.

Also, the Miata on real tires is the main reason I hate SM: overstuck, no real braking pressure and brake release technique barely matters, and the throttle is a button. The only thing they do well is lateral load cornering, but since they have stock bushings even that part feels terrible and very inconsistent. It's just too much grip for that chassis with limited grip. Also, those RR's are still not close to what I'd call a real racing tire, but I do like how they don't lose grip all the way to the cords. The allowed LSD (LSD's? Can't remember if it's just the shitty one I've driven on the 8 SM's I've remember driving or if there are options) sucks pretty hard, too.

The Miata and MX5, however, are LOVELY cars and I like them sooo much it's hard to explain. I have done tens of thousands of miles at Laguna in the MX5 and i never was bummed to leave pitlane or start an autox demo with those things. I just dislike the specific SM ruleset.

 

[msweeney]

Shit, I meant limited PREP, not grip.

 

[JohnMc]

I just dislike the specific SM ruleset.

I looked up the SM class rules to see what kind of tire they use, and sheesh, they leave no detail unmentioned.

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/23650/2023_Spec_Miata_Rules.pdf

39 pages of minutiae.

The person driving the Evora was a young girl who was a recent national karting champion. Too young to go out and work the course. That's a well funded kid.

 

[2manyturbos]

I meant to say on-throttle understeer there, that's really the only time it understeers. Occasionally I'd get a brief bit of initial understeer, brief push, but then the back end would start to run the show.

Spec Miata is using real racing tires, TOyo RR's for dry, basically a 40TW rating. I would imagine you'd need a different alignment for that sort of tire. I'm not sure that translates into the proper alignment for any other kind of tire. The 200TW RT660's are pretty sticky, but not like a 40TW racing tire.

EDIT: And PS - this isn't a track car, it's driven on the street, to work, to NC every once in a while, blasting around country roads around here. Something that would work for a race car wouldn't really be appropriate for a street car that gets autocrossed 6 or 7 times a year.

You might try 1/8" front toe out as suggested. It will help initial turn in. You can mark the tie rod with a paint stripe to give you a reference relative to the tie rod end. Dial in a bit of toe out on the Autocross weekend. Return it to "street" alignment for the drive home. A simple tape measure and a nice flat garage floor is accurate enough for your initial setting. figure out how much to turn the tie rod on each side to end up with your total toe out setting. I used to race with a Corvette owner that did this every event. It only took him 10 minutes to return his car to street toe at the end of the day.

The Evora driver is a lucky kid. I've seen many, many youngsters whose parents started them racing young that went on to be National Champions. Jamie Olerich is one such example. I remember her riding along in her dad's ~ 600 HP 2010 Z06 when she was 12-13. Speed did not scare her. By 15 1/2 she was driving the car with her permit with her dad in the passenger seat. Her 2nd trip to the Nationals she took the top spot in ASL. She doesn't bother with Ladies class anymore. She beats the guys in open class regularly. Whats even better is she is quite attractive. The guys really have to swallow their pride when she shows up to run an event. She was running a Mclaren 720S for awhile. Now, she is back to running her own Z06.

 

[noz-e8tr]

Agree with the 1/8" toe out above. It really helped on initial turn-in. Irritating as all get out on the street if you don't return it to street toe-in after the event though. lol I believe I was running about -3 camber with my Toyo R888

 

[2manyturbos]

Agree with the 1/8" toe out above. It really helped on initial turn-in. Irritating as all get out on the street if you don't return it to street toe-in after the event though. lol I believe I was running about -3 camber with my Toyo R888

That will drive you crazy on the street. I'm betting your car darted all over the place.

 

[noz-e8tr]

That will drive you crazy on the street. I'm betting your car darted all over the place.

That's putting it mildly. The R888 were 295/30/18. It darted, it followed every imperfection in the road. lol

 

[VB242]

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Last and fastest run
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[2manyturbos]

Your first run looked wild. I'm guessing, cold tires and a heavy throttle foot. I generally tell myself to make my first run a moderate find the course run. It never works that way. The starter drops the flag and my foot seems to go full tilt from the get go. Here are a couple of runs from 2 recent events.

This venue has a chip sealed surface that ends up with gravel piled along the fast line in no time. It is small, tight and bumpy on top of that.

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The run was with Oregon Region SCCA at Portland International Raceway South Paddock. It is much less obstructed and has nice smooth pavement that doesn't come apart as we are running on it.

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[JohnMc]

Ran second heat (out of 3) and got 6 runs in. Just barely beat the rain which clobbered the third heat.

Last/best run. I'm about a second and a half off the fast people (who all hang out in the ES class).

PS: I put the hardtop on as a 'weather good luck charm' and it worked for my heat, lol.

 

[2manyturbos]

Nice run. I skipped this weekend with the other club I run with in order to catch up on other things. I'm glad I did. They are running at Hoodoo Ski Resort and the weather looked really iffy for today. They got good weather yesterday. Cool temps, yet dry other than the first group. Today they woke up to rain mixed with snow and a daytime high of 37 degrees. Brutal.

Not your typical Autocross event.

 

[2manyturbos]

WMC had a great event Sunday at the Evergreen Aviation Museum. I used it to get ready for the National Tour in Packwood, WA this coming weekend. 275 of the region's top drivers will compete for a tour trophy. I have new A052s on the GT with 10 runs on them now. The perfect amount of heat cycling and they are sticking like glue. I'm running EBC blue brake pads now. This was the first time out with those and I do really like how they work. They have great bite even when cold and release quickly. The junk these replaced were Powerstop Extreme Street pads. They were terrible. I ran an entire season last year with that crap. My car feels like part of me now instead of just being along for a ride. My 2019 GT is seriously out gunned in F-Street now due to class changes at the beginning of last season. That said, it is going to be a blast to go compete with the best drivers this region has to offer. It's like a huge party hanging out with a bunch of great people who are like minded, yet, highly competitive.

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[2manyturbos]

The Packwood Solo National Tour went exactly as I expected. I got my ass kicked. The F-Street class as a whole beat the B-Street class times and came close to matching the Nation's top CAM C car. That's how lopsided F-Street is with the ridiculous change SCCA made last year. I included a couple of photos of my "class mates". 4 Camaro SS ILE track cars, a Shelby GT350, a Mach 1 and my PP1 GT. The GT 350 traveled from back east to run with us. He had just run the Tour event in Bristol, TN the weekend before where he took 2nd place by .3 seconds to Sam Strano, 8 time National Champion. IOW, the competition was tough. The guy in the blue shirt standing by the grey 1LE is James Paulson. Arguably, one of the best drivers in the west. Always in the top PAX if not TTOD. I had a good time. I made a huge mistake. I gave up my first run Sunday to "find" the line I wanted to be on the next 2 runs. Normally, I go all out all three runs at a National event. Saturday I took out 3 cones going all out my first run and didn't want to repeat that conage Sunday. It actually rained before I got to make the next 2 runs. The times on average dropped 2 seconds and then 4 seconds it got so slick. My 2nd run driving on the edge was .1 seconds slower than my first run. My 3rd run was 4 seconds slower than my first run. Oh well. I had hoped to PAX much better than I did, however, the rain killed that. Our session was the only session that got rained on. The other 4 sessions were perfect temperatures and dry pavement. The courses for both days were very technical courses. You were either right on the line or you were screwed.

Saturday's fastest run.

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Sunday run 1 with dry pavement, finding the line.

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Class photos

My GT on course.

 

[2manyturbos]

I have been to a couple of great events at Hoodoo Ski area since the Tour took place. This is last weekend with ACCO. It was the same course both days. We ran it clockwise on Saturday, counter-clockwise on Sunday. It seemed to flow better for my car Sunday. It was a very technical course. Both days my times varied less than a second after I put down my first run to establish the line. I just plateaued after the first run. Many drivers experienced the same results. There was nowhere on the course to separate the cars via handling or horsepower. It was a one course sucks for all weekend. : ) Actually, I liked the course both days. Notice in the videos how busy I am staying on the line. It was a workout. We got 12 runs on Saturday and 9 on Sunday. I finally got Solostorm doing everything it is supposed to do, including operating the camera. I also finally figured out how to extract the overlaid videos from my tablet that I use to analyze the course and my driving. They take a long time to process. Next time I will make sure the header doesn't overlap the beginning of the run. Seeing the data gives perspective to just how quick the GT is. On Solostorm 89% is wide open throttle. Some sort of error in their code. The thumping noises you hear are items in the console box and glove box slamming back and forth. Watch the G force diagram at the bottom of the video and it will make sense. I'm wearing a harness cinched tight which keeps me from doing the bobble head. Videos with passengers in the front seat make it clear just how many G's the occupants feel.

Saturday

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Sunday

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[dl242gt]

The course designer probably loved making a course that sucked for everyone. Great driving! Here I am 20 years ago. Driving my car with brand new MVP coilovers. Awhile after this I was replacing the struts in the suspension and I was surprised to see I had a 150lb spring on one side and a 200lb spring on the other. That's what they sold me and I never noticed. lol. So then I went to the barrel springs which worked for a long time.

 

[2manyturbos]

The course designer probably loved making a course that sucked for everyone. Great driving! Here I am 20 years ago. Driving my car with brand new MVP coilovers. Awhile after this I was replacing the struts in the suspension and I was surprised to see I had a 150lb spring on one side and a 200lb spring on the other. That's what they sold me and I never noticed. lol. So then I went to the barrel springs which worked for a long time.

Thanks. Cool looking 242. I ran a 1979 242 GT as my first autocross car. I did 2-3 events in it and then switched to my Sunbeam Tiger for the rest of the season.

 

[2manyturbos]

This past weekend was the annual Fall Enduro at the scale road race track in Medford, OR. This is the 3rd year in a row that I have run this event. I set a track record for F Street last year and headed back down to see if I could defend it. It was definitely a great weekend. The track was quite slick Saturday. It may have been all the rubber put down by the drift club that shares the track. It may have been the oil brought to the surface because of the intense rain Friday night. Whatever the reason, I just about did an off twice on my first and second practice sessions in the exact same places. I wasn't even on it the first time out. It just would not stick. I adjusted my line and it solved the problem. A few cars did go off track in the same places. Saturday was overcast and relatively cool out. That contributed to the much lower grip everyone was experiencing. I did make faster runs in Saturday's practice than I did during practice last year. I figured if I could stay right on the line I worked out I could cut some time off my record run from last year. I got 5 3 lap practice runs Saturday. Solostorm recorded all 5, however, the camera only recorded the first 2. I think the battery probably died and I was too busy to notice the video wasn't recording. Sunday, it was sunny all day and was about 60 degrees out when I ran. Not the perfect temp, but, close. Grip was way up from Saturday. You can see it in the videos. Both my practice session and timed run were at approximately the same time of day. Sunday I went full throttle right from the start. 89% throttle on Solostorm with my GT is actually 100% WOT. I was running 51.2 second lap times in practice last year. 50.7 second lap times this Saturday. That was after a full lap to warm the tires both last year and this year. I think I was probably a bit conservative in my actual run because a 2 wheels off track is a 2 second penalty. 4 wheels off is a 10 second penalty and possible chassis damage. I just had to go out there and drive as fast as possible while making sure I didn't hose my run and a chance at taking back the track record that a Mustang PP2 GT took from me an hour before I made my run. We both ran in group 3 and 4. Meaning, same conditions, same track temps etc. Jarred ran a 4:16.070. My record run last year was a 4:16.232. A 0.162 second quicker run. I put down a 4:15.771. 0.299 quicker than Jarred's run and 0.461 seconds quicker than my previous record. Just enough to hang on to the record for another year. There were 5 cars in F Street class. I took home the 1st in class trophy and upped the track record for F Street. Even if neither happened it would have been a great weekend.

Saturday's practice session.

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Sunday's timed run.

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[towerymt]

The course designer probably loved making a course that sucked for everyone. Great driving! Here I am 20 years ago. Driving my car with brand new MVP coilovers. Awhile after this I was replacing the struts in the suspension and I was surprised to see I had a 150lb spring on one side and a 200lb spring on the other. That's what they sold me and I never noticed. lol. So then I went to the barrel springs which worked for a long time.

Reminds me of Atco. Where is that?