Headgasket ? help me please.

[WAGONRACER]

I have fitted my '92 b200ft powered 940 with a low milage '98 b230fk block after the head gasket on it started to go i took the head off and you could fit a small child in between the piston and bore. After having put it all back together again with the new block but the old head, I realised that i was an idiot and the reason the head gasket was still blowing is I had not had the head skimed ( please learn by my silly mistake ) so i took it all apart again took the head to a machine shop and he had to shave 12 thou off the head to make it flat again. after fitting it along with a new volvo gasket. (I finished this at 10pm yesterday) I took the car for a slow drive, with the boost at 7psi never going over 3500rpm AND after 10 mins there was steam (white smoke ) bellowing from the exhaust, it emptys the almost the entire cooling system in a minute, the header tank bubbles like a geiser and it is genrally a pig to drive, even worse than when i started but it appears there is no oil in water or water in oil. so does any one have any idea what might be going on ? is there somthing I might have damaged (turbo)? fitted wrong ? OR has working single handidly on this all day for the past week just made my mechanical skills as bad as my puncuation and spelling ?(sorry its taken me 30 mins to write this) just so you know the car is a '92 940 originally b200ft now b230fkISH with 15g turbo , 960 afm , 440cc injectors, 3" down pipe and exhaust , no cat , ebay alloy intercooler, adjustable fpr & freds ignition chip curently with a standard 2.3 ecu I know i need to do a cylinder pressure test, but at the moment i cant get the car in my garage , its raining real hard and i genrally cant be bothered so WTF ?

 

[BB-Q]

Sounds like you didn't clean the block face correctly. Or maybe you've not cleaned out the head bolt thread holes correctly, got a hydraulic lock on one and it's now loosened. Or maybe the head's cracked.

On the more positive side, there's a chance that the cooling system is airlocked, although this is unlikely as I've never known one airlock yet.

You've got a B230 bottom end, right? You've not put a B200 gasket on it have you?

 

[faster4_tec]

HG isn't on upside down is it? theres 4ways it can fit, but only 1 is right!!

we've all done this wrong.


also mounting a different head + block together and of different years means sometimes the oil + coolant galleys don't line up quite right, so you have to fiddle around with them ALOT, on my current cars I've had to home modify both HG's to make em fit 9as the blocks and heads are different)

 

[WAGONRACER]

Right head gasket is defo blown just need to work out why its done it.

The thermostat seams a little slow only opens a bit in boiling water its a 92 degree one, could this cause such a big problem IE blown head gasket? I never saw the temp gauge move untill it emptied all the water.
The bottom of the rad is oval ! it must have seriously presurised the system <a href="http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee105/OPELFRUIT4130/?action=view&current=30042008293.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee105/OPELFRUIT4130/30042008293.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Ive already flushed the cooling system but i have just done it again to be sure.

should i check anything else ?

Sounds like you didn't clean the block face correctly. Or maybe you've not cleaned out the head bolt thread holes correctly, got a hydraulic lock on one and it's now loosened.

I cleaned the block with a plastic scraper its been sitting on a stand for a while and im a compulsive cleaner so it should have been ok, I also ran a old bolt with a grove cut in it down the threads to clean them out.

Or maybe the head's cracked.

Thats a thought thats worrying me

You've got a B230 bottom end, right? You've not put a B200 gasket on it have you?

no its defo a b230 gasket 100 %

HG isn't on upside down is it? theres 4ways it can fit, but only 1 is right!!

no again, checked that

also mounting a different head + block together and of different years means sometimes the oil + coolant galleys don't line up quite right, so you have to fiddle around with them ALOT, on my current cars I've had to home modify both HG's to make em fit 9as the blocks and heads are different)

could this be a problem the are both 530's ?

its worth noting that i have biult/fitted a good few engines before although never a volvo one.
Thanks for the sugestions guys keep em coming.

 

[MikeHardy]

should be an 87c one in a turbo. the temp is the time they start to open

 

[WAGONRACER]

should be an 87c one in a turbo. the temp is the time they start to open

This is what i am going to be replacing it with, although the old one was fitted by volvo when owned by the previous owner. ive even found a recipt for it, doesnt mention the temp though and ive never had a problem with it in the last year of hard ownership. COULD the 2.0 head be in some way different to the 2.3? (im clutching at straws here) ive excepted the fact im going to have to take it all apart again I just want that to be the last time. (for a while)

 

[MikeHardy]

nope, a 530 is a 530.

 

[BB-Q]

To have blown again that quick it never sealed to start with. That's why my money's on a tiny bit of old gasket on the block face or a bit of oil or old gasket in a head bolt hole.

 

[the poi]

Why'd the headgasket go in the first place? It both the block and head are flat and smooth, and the headgasket was installed correctly, and you still hda this problem, either the head is cracked or the block is in the cylinder liners

 

[volvorsport]

seized thermostat ?

 

[volvorsport]

or the cylinder head is corroded which is the norm for b2xx , so you might have to check that

 

[WAGONRACER]

seized thermostat ?

In a word ... yes but cause or affect ?

To have blown again that quick it never sealed to start with. That's why my money's on a tiny bit of old gasket on the block face or a bit of oil or old gasket in a head bolt hole.

The block face is spotless trust me but i will make sure, how would you suggest making sure the threads are as well ?

Why'd the headgasket go in the first place?

General wear and tear, it hasnt been changed in the last 100,000 miles that i have a recipt for and the previous owners kept everything AND 18psi daily bashing... I assumed the first time, second time that the head wasnt flat, I think now the head may be cracked. stuck themostat as i said may be cause or affect.

If both the block and head are flat and smooth, and the headgasket was installed correctly, and you still had this problem, either the head is cracked or the block is in the cylinder liners

I plan to compression test it in the morning find and find which cylinder(s) are leaking. Im assuming that the head may be cracked and I can prob test this, but is there any surefire way of telling if the block is trash? I brought it second hand and it was spotless inside, still had clean oil in the sump.

or the cylinder head is corroded which is the norm for b2xx , so you might have to check that

where abouts ?

Thanks for all the help, the plan of action for tomorrow is
1: compression test.
2: head off.
3: inspect head for cracks corrosion ect.
4: inspect, reclean, tap, check block.
anything else ive missed ?

 

[Fivehundred]

Are you sure that the water actually went out of the exhaust?

Assuming you did it all properly, the faces were clean, the bolts were tight the headgasket was the right way up.

Your radiator isn't like that because it was pressurised, corrosion caused the bottom of the radiator to bow like that, it's all but dead.

How about the last time you blew the headgasket you got a load of water in the exhaust and you can see it boiling off, you didn't drive it far.

1) My suggestion is source another radiator, yours is dead or in the terminal stages of dying.

2) Test the thermostat if it's faulty replace it with a known to work thermostat.

3) Measure the amount of water going into the engine. I've seen header tanks full on these with virtually no water in the engine because the t6hin return pipe from the radiator to the expansion bottle is blocked, the nipples on the rad or the bottle can block or the pipe collapse. Rsult, instant airlock with resultant overheat.

 

[volvorsport]

heads corrode around the coolant passages , youll see when you open it up .

take thermostat out and run it see if it does the same thing .

 

[WAGONRACER]

Are you sure that the water actually went out of the exhaust?

No not 100 % but see below

Your radiator isn't like that because it was pressurised, corrosion caused the bottom of the radiator to bow like that, it's all but dead.

I would agree that age has not been kind to it but, 20 min before it went for the third time, when i refitted it, the bottom was a little tatty but straight .

How about the last time you blew the headgasket you got a load of water in the exhaust and you can see it boiling off, you didn't drive it far?

there was alot of steam and as soon as it emptied the almost all the water out it stoped steaming .

1) My suggestion is source another radiator, yours is dead or in the terminal stages of dying.

check.

2) Test the thermostat if it's faulty replace it with a known to work thermostat.

check, 87 degree thermostat brought.

3) Measure the amount of water going into the engine. I've seen header tanks full on these with virtually no water in the engine because the t6hin return pipe from the radiator to the expansion bottle is blocked, the nipples on the rad or the bottle can block or the pipe collapse. Rsult, instant airlock with resultant overheat.

I took the return pipe off the header tank end when i filled it and waited untill a constant stream of water came out,it took a few watering cans worth I have however removed and checked all the accessable hoses and will check the rest when i remove the head tomorrow .

Thanks for your help .

 

[Typhoon]

I cleaned the block with a plastic scraper

.

Not good enough. You should have used a metal scraper to remove ALL old gasket, I don't know of any plastic scraper that would go even close to doing the job. I scrape everythign I can off with a metal scraper, apply gasket striper, go again, apply stripper etc, till the block SCRAPES CLEAN.
Should have also cleaned teh face with thinners and lots of rags immediately before installation of gasket. I use a stainless steel scourer or Scotchbrite and solvent for final clean before installation.
Consdiering you dumped all your coolant so quickly, the gasket just did not seal. This is my number one suspect, improper torque is number two.

Regards , Andrew.

 

[WAGONRACER]

RIGHT just compression tested the engine (cold) and... 165 psi on every cylinder so the head gasket must be sealed, i suspected it again due to some water being in the clean oil and steam from the exhaust + bad running. should i be suspecting a cracked head as this may not show up? or something else ? if so what ?

Consdiering you dumped all your coolant so quickly, the gasket just did not seal. This is my number one suspect, improper torque is number two.

The block face WAS clean, as clean as a new engine thats just been cleaned (and i used to assemble them for a living). the bolts were torqued 20 nm , 60 nm , 90 degrees and in the order stated by the manual, and i had the wrench callibrated last week.

its been sitting on a stand for a while and im a compulsive cleaner.

=

I scrape everythign I can off with a metal scraper, apply gasket striper, go again, apply stripper etc, till the block SCRAPES CLEAN.
Should have also cleaned teh face with thinners and lots of rags immediately before installation of gasket. I use a stainless steel scourer or Scotchbrite and solvent for final clean before installation.

seriously though everything is always spotless on my cars I clean + polish the engine once a week, the car 3 times, I take the wheels off and clean the brake dust off the insides every month, every aluminium part i took off was cleaned and polished engine mounts ect even the cam retaining caps. cleanlyness is next to godlyness.

thanks again . John

 

[WAGONRACER]

just so you know, i biult these, thats me in the pasangers seat BTW and i know the first 2 are 'just' rover v8's but the morgan's short block cost ?6500 to biuld and was 1 of 2 in the country (vid starts at 1 min):

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/fast-55v8-powered-morgan-plus-8_111626.htm

and this needs no intro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGmNJHhc_uA

and done the prep work for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcCXioz7GJ8&feature=related

I dont do/like blowing my own trumpet but I do have some experiance, this has me stumped though.

 

[nejones]

Hi John just a thought that I dont think anyone else has mentioned. Did you use new head bolts with oiled threads?

Nathan

 

[WAGONRACER]

Thanks nathan , no ive used the old ones the last 2 times but they all measured up ok (I borrowed a new bolt from the local accessory shop), I think this time for the sake of it its gonna be new ones though. the threads have been wire brushed and very lightly oiled both times previous.
Im about to go take the head off again Ill post my findings later hopefully, It certainly wont be going back together 2 nite thats for sure.
Anyone got a good 531 head ? LOL