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NA Redblock tuning paths

digital.aaron

S powered
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
turnin up the volume to 11 on the dial
I'm in the process of bringing my 1986 NA 244 up to stage 0, and I'm also starting to plan my upgrade/tuning path for the future. I've come up with some options, and I'd like to get some opinions and input into my brainstorming.

The car is mainly a DD, but if I had a DD with some pep, I'd definitely think about autoX. This isn't going to be a racecar, but I wouldn't mind some extra ponies under the hood.

Firstly, I believe the first decision branch will be whether to keep my existing motor and mod it, or swap it for something else. We'll look at the existing motor first:

1) install a performance cam, cam timing gear, new exhaust on existing redblock. This would probably be the cheapest and easiest path for me to complete (mostly) by myself. I would most probably have the exhaust professionally installed.

2) +T it. I think I could handle most of this, but would need help any custom fabrication or welding. I know my '86 B230F is not really the ideal engine for this. Would the +t be worth it? Which cams from path 1) might work well with this option?


For a swap:

3) I think my main preference would be to get a newer B230FT. I've seen some of what the turbo redblocks are capable of, and it definitely appeals to me. it'd be more expensive than a +t, but I think it'd also open more potential for tuning and mods than the +t with my non-ideal engine.

4) Something non-Volvo. Probably a V8, definitely something with power. I believe this would be the most expensive path, and wouldn't be something I could do much of by myself (at this point, anyway). But dropping 400+hp of POWAH into my brick would put a smile on my face (yes, yes, I know there's a bunch of other stuff I'd need to do if I dropped something like an LS1 in, like a new tranny, DS, rear end, etc that could handle the torque).

This is not a project I'm looking to complete anytime soon, but I will start laying the groundwork soon, and could start slowly acquiring parts I need. I'd like to avoid starting down the "wrong" path and potentially wasting money of stuff I'm not going to use. Yes, I know I can always sell stuff I'm not going to use, but it'd probably be at a loss, so I'd still like to avoid that if possible.

Comments/flames/advice welcomed.
 
Much of this will be determined by your end goals. Many and most will tell you that you are wasting your time and money on NA power with a redblock when a +T is much more cost effective at getting the best bang for your buck, and they are right. I too have 240 that has undergone a +T however i opted not to use the pre 90 motor due to the skinny rods. I used a B230FX and used the turbo equipment from an 87 740 turbo, and eventually upgraded to a 15g at 10psi which for daily driving and a bit of pep suits me just fine.
Using a B230FT will be easier if you dont want to have to sort things out for your oil feed and drain, and also gives you a little more headroom to run more boost in the future if you decide that what you have is not enough, If going down this path then look for a late model engine (post 90). Also if possible it would be a good idea to swap in LH2.4 while you have the motor out as this will open you up to more tuning options than LH2.2's pretty much non existent tuning options.
My advice would be to get yourself the engine of your choice, whether it be a regular B230F or B230FT and build it on a stand and pretty much get the whole thing ready to go. It would be a good idea to order a seal kit from FCP and do all the oil seals, timing belt, tensioner and any of those things that could fail in your car once its installed and running.
Taking this approach will allow you to take your time to get everything ready, while still allowing you to drive your car. And then when your ready you can just pull the motor and drop the new one back in and cross your fingers and turn the key.
 
Easiest/cheapest is to just buy this and get it to stage 0.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=254121
I went down/am going down this road with my NA 240, was going to plus-T it, or just NA+ the hell out of it. Now that we got the 240T I am just happy if I can keep both of them running and on the road.
- Plenty of 240Ti's around the PNW still for around $1000 if you don't mind waiting or searching out the right one or wrenching a bit.. Then you are ahead of the game too in many other ways; The turbos came factory with many options that people on here fall all over themselves trying to put on to a DL; Bigger sways, better shocks/struts, LSD (some), knock-sensor, TURBO, Forged engine internals, on and on.... If the wifey has issue with you getting 'ANOTHER 240' as mine did, just make sure you let her drive it a few times once it's running good and she'll be game. Then you can work on trying to convince her you need to put it up on blocks, tear it down and spend like 1-2k on upgrades. Good Luck!

P.s.- At this point I think you would find that the 86 is plenty fast and useful as your DD with just a stage 0+ tune. However if you change your mind, I still have parts on the shelf for +T or NA X-tra power (RSI stage-1 NA cam) that I'm hoarding just in case I ever have time to worry about adding POWA to Silver... The +T parts were mostly in the Garage sale ad (for cheaper-than-PnP prices too), the cam I am secretly still wanting to use but would still sell it for less than a new one, so I can buy more parts for the 240T on blocks in my garage undergoing 1-2k in upgrades at the moment...
 
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So if I went the route of building a B230FT on a stand, would it be advisable to do the LH2.4 swap at the same time, or would that be something I could put in place on the existing B230F in the meantime before I finished rebuilding the new engine? I'm just thinking how I could spread out the work and expenses over a period of time. Along those same lines, would a turbo-compatible exhaust system work with my NA engine? Or would there be negative consequences to that (decreased life/performance, bad emissions, etc)?

Thanks for the input, though. I do really like the idea of getting a Turbo red block to swap in.
 
LH2.4 swap will require a different flywheel and a new wiring harness, so you should wait until you are swapping the engine out, IMO. It is be possible to get your NA downpipe to mate with a custom exhaust, but why? Just added expense come time for the engine swap. What <I>is</i> your power goal? It would help to know this because the higher your goal, the bigger the exhaust will have to be for optimum performance.
 
LH2.4 swap will require a different flywheel and a new wiring harness, so you should wait until you are swapping the engine out, IMO.

Good to know!


What <I>is</i> your power goal? It would help to know this because the higher your goal, the bigger the exhaust will have to be for optimum performance.

I don't really have a hard number. Maybe 200-250hp for a redblock turbo? Like I said, this isn't going to be a dedicated race car. I'd like it to be quick, but it doesn't have to be a barn stormer.
 
A small rod '86 230f+t on 2.2 will make 200+ for years of fun, cheap and easy.
Drop in a '93+ 230ft and convert to 2.4 for more money and work.
The most expensive would be a full build on a stand and convert.
With the number of decent 230ft's in junk yards I don't think a full build is needed.
 
I'm in the process of bringing my 1986 NA 244 up to stage 0, and I'm also starting to plan my upgrade/tuning path for the future. I've come up with some options, and I'd like to get some opinions and input into my brainstorming.

The car is mainly a DD, but if I had a DD with some pep, I'd definitely think about autoX. This isn't going to be a racecar, but I wouldn't mind some extra ponies under the hood.

Firstly, I believe the first decision branch will be whether to keep my existing motor and mod it, or swap it for something else. We'll look at the existing motor first:

1) install a performance cam, cam timing gear, new exhaust on existing redblock. This would probably be the cheapest and easiest path for me to complete (mostly) by myself. I would most probably have the exhaust professionally installed.

2) +T it. I think I could handle most of this, but would need help any custom fabrication or welding. I know my '86 B230F is not really the ideal engine for this. Would the +t be worth it? Which cams from path 1) might work well with this option?


For a swap:

3) I think my main preference would be to get a newer B230FT. I've seen some of what the turbo redblocks are capable of, and it definitely appeals to me. it'd be more expensive than a +t, but I think it'd also open more potential for tuning and mods than the +t with my non-ideal engine.

4) Something non-Volvo. Probably a V8, definitely something with power. I believe this would be the most expensive path, and wouldn't be something I could do much of by myself (at this point, anyway). But dropping 400+hp of POWAH into my brick would put a smile on my face (yes, yes, I know there's a bunch of other stuff I'd need to do if I dropped something like an LS1 in, like a new tranny, DS, rear end, etc that could handle the torque).

This is not a project I'm looking to complete anytime soon, but I will start laying the groundwork soon, and could start slowly acquiring parts I need. I'd like to avoid starting down the "wrong" path and potentially wasting money of stuff I'm not going to use. Yes, I know I can always sell stuff I'm not going to use, but it'd probably be at a loss, so I'd still like to avoid that if possible.

Comments/flames/advice welcomed.

You should stop driving and take the bus if you have to ask that :)

This site wouldn't be what it is if a +T was not worth it. Read the stickies on adding a turbo.

The beauty of the +T is more HP/Torque, the factory did 99% of the work for you and once you have more $$/experience/desire, you can add more power in stages.
 
So I've pretty much decided to go the +t path. I'm now in the process of acquiring all the parts I need. My question now is, would it be a good idea to switch out my head with a turbo-specific one? If I understand correctly this would give me a more ideal compression ratio as well as help with emissions. So what's the general consensus here? Good idea or no?
 
So I've pretty much decided to go the +t path. I'm now in the process of acquiring all the parts I need. My question now is, would it be a good idea to switch out my head with a turbo-specific one? If I understand correctly this would give me a more ideal compression ratio as well as help with emissions. So what's the general consensus here? Good idea or no?

The compression is changed via the pistons...N/A are flat top or slight dish, turbo has a deeper dish.

You'll fail emission tests for other things than the slightly higher compression 1st.
 
Depends on your power goals, the stock NA exhaust valves have burnt up before from too much heat in the combustion chamber. If you keep it chill, they should hold up for a while.
 
I have an old school dale's adjustable cam gear and B cam somewhere that you can have as a package for $100, Might have an extra timing belt you can have free too...is your car manual or auto?
 
Ok, I read the thread. It appears you have already moved from possibly doing NA power straight to +T power.

In that case, a 2.5" exhaust won't hold you back too much for 250hp and will be just fine on the non-turbo car, so, go for it. Slap a 2.5" exhaust from behind the catalytic converter and call it good. One large muffler at the back should be sufficient with a mild NA motor and stock cat/downpipe, but maybe a little on the louder side. It'll be nice and quiet once you turbo the car though, and you won't have wasted any money.

An A, B, V, or IPD Turbo cam will all be an improvement over what you currently have and will work both NA or Turbo. A VX or VX3 cam will also be an improvement, but those are more NA biased grinds than the others mentioned that work "ok" both ways.
 
I have an old school dale's adjustable cam gear and B cam somewhere that you can have as a package for $100, Might have an extra timing belt you can have free too...is your car manual or auto?

It's auto for now. Eventually I'm going to convert it, but that's several major projects down on the list at the moment. I may take you up on the offer, but I have to see how everything pans out in the next couple weeks.


Ok, I read the thread. It appears you have already moved from possibly doing NA power straight to +T power.

Yeah, I got started planning a +t and basically took off running with the idea. I'm picking up all the +t stuff tomorrow, and I'll be sending a bunch of paypal monies out to TBers for LH2.4 conversion stuff tomorrow as well. I'll probably start the major work next weekend.
 
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