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P80 AWD / C70 ragtop engine cradle & other suspension recombine

Kjets On a Plane

Kjets On a Plane

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Location
Californicated Oregone
So, I have the rare P80 AWD car (‘98 V70R) with tight bushings & good working Nivomats & that came with a fairly recent set of OE strut mount bushings & (Over-Achiever / too stiff and noisy for a middle aged guy who just wants to drink his coffee & think about where he’s going in quiet comfortable bliss Jeesh!) Bilstein HD fronts.

Do the optional Ohlins on their softest setting ride any softer? I don’t recall?
None besides those & the Bilstein HDs seem to actually last worth a crap (maybe back when you could get stock quality Volvo sachs struts but that’s been some time now?).

I have a couple C70 engine cradles and braces.
I know I can’t use the brace w/o re-shaping that (or cutting out the middle bit idk?) to accommodate the F-R driveline that does work, but mostly sits on the shelf.

I can’t use the cradle as-is w/my engine mounts.
What’s the path of least resistance for recombining used parts to use the solid bushings from C70 cradle in my existing AWD engine cradle or whole cradle for us AWD guys?

Attempt to press out the cradle solid bushings (doesn’t look super easy?) and install them in my AWD cradle or drill spot welds for the AWD engine mountings off my existing AWD cradle & fry them onto the C70 ragtop Cradle?

Transferring locations of the riv-nuts for the triangle brace on the C70 ragtop cradle onto the AWD engine cradle doesn’t look too difficult?

My (already 4-bolt like the C70 ragtop cradle is setup for) control arm bushings & ball joints are good, but if I keep the car, does anyone make a sturdy adapter from the 4-bolt control arm cradle to use the ‘93 850 control arms w/replaceable ball joints?

(it’s against my religion to pay for a whole control arm when the car just needs a ball joint &/or not just re-combine bushings or fill them with some combo of metal and windshield glue :lol:).

I’m after charting some course forward to just make it down the road comfortably / predictably w/o too much babysitting?

The rubber subframe bushings are just AWFUL on these things?!? WTH!?!
(I’ve done the C70 ragtop cradle and brace swap on FWD cars a few times / barely tolerated driving them with the rubber stock subframe bushings, but this is my 1st AWD?).

Not only does it somehow ride kinda rough w/the Bilsteins, but it also flexes all over the place with the rubber subframe bushings / has zero steering crispness on the highway even with tight suspension otherwise (someone did the steering rack and joints prior to my ownership).

I have some spare Bilsteins (no Ohlins sadly / sold the used set I had?) , NOS strut mounts, C70 ragtop cradle and brace x2, fresh Volvo replaced steering rack and had some nicer nivomats (no NOS rear suspension bushings I wish I’d hoarded :/) and ‘93 850 control arms (w/accompanying recently replaced ball joints?).

What’s the consensus on CV joints?
I had the boot split open and felt a little ‘woowoowoo’ pulsation/vibration on the passenger side?
Seems like too much time/risk to reboot and swap joints side-side on the shafts as once it’s pulsing, it probably has some play and surface abrasions on the balls and housing thru the case hardening of the CV?
Just find a decent used ‘94-‘98 P80 turbo driver side outer and new or good used boot & install it on my passenger side?
I don’t trust myself to get all the grease out and back in clean, but if the boot is uncracked, I am that cheap to reuse a boot and grease?


How can I predictably recombine all this to keep this thing on the road a bit longer and have it drive a little nicer unlike the heavy flaccid whale dick w/too small engine it drives like now?

I’m amazed they sold any of these things / moneypits?
I still contend they’re the relatively ‘least worst’ Eurotrash car of their time in the USA market in some ways, but like special Olympics…
…well…
But plenty of years parts interchange and practical / flat tail gate is nice?

Not as painless to keep it going as a Subaru, Honda or Toyota nor as bank vault solid feeling as a late ‘94-‘95 W124 E420 Benz or the E39 ‘98 540 6 speed I had…unsure quite to make of this thing after purchasing it from the OG owner w/a giant stack of receipts w/plenty of miles and a burned valve some years back, lapping some valves in it and cherry picking and steam cleaning all the lifters and sump?

Decent metal, engine agreeable enough, longer production run / parts interchange, but the sharp stuff in the engine bay, short control arms / compromises associated w/stuffing the 5 banger in these sideways with long nose and turning radius isn’t *great?*. Hmmm

The vertical opening sprung hood is nice, but can’t open the hood vertical and jack the car up very far in my 9’ ceiling garage the hood is so ridiculously long? :lol:
 
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It's been a long time since I rode in a P80 with Bilstein HDs, but that car also had IPD lowering springs; so the ride wasn't cushy. My memory of a friend's 99 V70 R with Ohlins and the Ohlins springs is that they can be set softer than the HDs. If you can find a set of Ohlins (rare and expensive at this point) I think you'll be happy with the ride. Most people pick either the factory Sachs struts or Bilstein Touring with factory springs for decent ride quality.

You can swap the C70 subframe in to replace your existing AWD subframe. It has the same transmission mount provision (near the drivers side control arm). Like you said, the convertible brace interferes with the AWD system, but once the brace is removed, the C70 subframe with the aluminum bushings will drop right in with a few hours of work. You'd need to support the engine / transmission while you remove the subframe - that's easiest with a HF engine support bar, but it's not difficult, just fiddly to get everything lined back up while working under the car. My build thread (linked in next paragraph) has photos of all this stuff.

No one makes an adapter to use the 2-bolt front control arms with the 4 bolt subframe. However, you can carefully cut the transmission mount pad off a 4-bolt subframe and weld it to a 2-bolt subframe so you can use the 2 bolt control arms with the AWD transmission mount in your R. Then, you'd want to either move the C70 aluminum bushings over (difficult, but cheap) or install a set of BNE Delrin bushings (easy, but not cheap). I did make a custom front subframe like that to run a set of 93 850 aluminum control arms with replaceable ball joints in my 00 R, and bought a set of Ben's bushings that are the single best mod you can do these cars.
 
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I only got to like paragraph #3

The later model convertible70 have the mounts for awd transmissions

Cv joints always lasted about 50-100k I just buy new from Napa now, doing the boots is dumb when new they’re like $100
 
Your 93 control arms won’t fit as the 98R should have the same updated control arms as xc and c70

The orange (can’t remember the same) shocks are softer than HD or Koni
 
Jack said:
Your 93 control arms won’t fit as the 98R should have the same updated control arms as xc and c70

The orange (can’t remember the same) shocks are softer than HD or Koni
Click to expand...
Orange struts are Koni STR.T (street) shocks. No firsthand experience with them but rumor is they're valved to match the Koni adjustables set to full soft.
 
andyb5 said:
Orange struts are Koni STR.T (street) shocks. No firsthand experience with them but rumor is they're valved to match the Koni adjustables set to full soft.
Click to expand...
This is true

I replaced my HDs with koni adjustables
On full soft they are softer than the street ones

(Gf car has orange with stock springs)
 
To add to that my ride is still pretty hard with Eibach lowering springs

Or maybe they’re something else, it’s been like 20 years since I installed them
 
My car has / came w/ 4 bolt control arms that are ‘fine’ (afaik?) (for now,?), but I do have the ‘93s and a bucket of spare ball joints and some spare bushings?

I find Ohlins from time to time?
Have doubts that oil shocks w/o the reservoirs will last?
The HDs work and will probably last a while / not lowering it and aren’t terrible on the stock springs, but not as quiet snd pleasant as I remember the OE Sachs struts back when they were available, but it’s been a while and the Sachs struts have been of dubious quality lately?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m of 2 minds on the axle shafts?
Re-booting does sound like a PITA and if the replacement craptermarket axles can last ok, might do that?

But the cheapskate / longevity brain in me says ‘the outers are likely to wear out 1st & the same side to side, therefore flip the outers and reboot if any that are good?’
But that’s more difficult when they’re not the same axle on each side…

Anyone ever catch one before it has hardly any symptoms and successfully reboot or reboot and flip on these or once it’s pulsing a little it’s probably worn out junk?
 
Kjets On a Plane said:
My car has / came w/ 4 bolt control arms that are ‘fine’ (afaik?) (for now,?), but I do have the ‘93s and a bucket of spare ball joints and some spare bushings?
Click to expand...
Once you do the subframe bushings, the 4-bolt control arms are the worst part of the "updated" front end, IMO. There's no real aftermarket alternative, and the wheel hop from the rubber bushings is intolerable...

If someone came up with an aftermarket solution, they'd corner the market on P80s!
andyb5 said:
Orange struts are Koni STR.T (street) shocks.
Click to expand...
I currently have these on my C70. They've softened up a bit in the year or two since I put them on, but I wish they were softer. The car handles fine...maybe I'm just getting old :ROFLMAO:

My car has served more DD duty, as opposed to it being a weekend warrior...for perspective...
 
Kjets On a Plane said:
My car has / came w/ 4 bolt control arms that are ‘fine’ (afaik?) (for now,?), but I do have the ‘93s and a bucket of spare ball joints and some spare bushings?

I find Ohlins from time to time?
Have doubts that oil shocks w/o the reservoirs will last?
The HDs work and will probably last a while / not lowering it and aren’t terrible on the stock springs, but not as quiet snd pleasant as I remember the OE Sachs struts back when they were available, but it’s been a while and the Sachs struts have been of dubious quality lately?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’m of 2 minds on the axle shafts?
Re-booting does sound like a PITA and if the replacement craptermarket axles can last ok, might do that?

But the cheapskate / longevity brain in me says ‘the outers are likely to wear out 1st & the same side to side, therefore flip the outers and reboot if any that are good?’
But that’s more difficult when they’re not the same axle on each side…

Anyone ever catch one before it has hardly any symptoms and successfully reboot or reboot and flip on these or once it’s pulsing a little it’s probably worn out junk?
Click to expand...
I rebooted the 850 lemons car just for standard maintanance. Still has the stock axles. Around 120k on the chassis with over 10 races at this point i think.

Those ohlins can be rebuilt so defn save them. Its not cheap but they aren't cheap dampers.
 
blkaplan said:
I rebooted the 850 lemons car just for standard maintanance. Still has the stock axles. Around 120k on the chassis with over 10 races at this point i think.

Those ohlins can be rebuilt so defn save them. Its not cheap but they aren't cheap dampers.
Click to expand...
*Think* I have some wounded Ohlins that I’ll maybe rebuild if I keep this needy thing?

I’m grateful that the strut mounts and Bilstein HDs work, so no rush to do anything, but they’re ‘a little much’ for a DD for me?

Supposedly, turbos have larger outer CVs?

I’m used to flipping them side-side and re-greasing them on MBZ, longitudinal engine VW/Audi where the new price & availability is ridiculous & Subarus, but same axle side-side on those, obviously / easier to kick the can on those?

Not too many -‘98 turbo donors left for a decent outer CV, but I’ll probably look for a good OE driver side turbo outer & stick it on my passenger side axle for now?
(messy & annoying as that is?)

The last remaining n/a straggler ‘least fuss’ like my old no-sunroof white ‘95 LH3.2 manual cloth seat 855 (which I’m starting to think I should have kept if there was ‘one to keep’ of all things P80?) P80s and a few super dog hair filled beat ‘98 n/as are about all that’s trickling in for parts / about as rare as 240s, TBH?

@ least it’s -‘98 w/reusable the axle nuts / don’t have to buy the new annoying 1-time-use bolts?

There was a junker ‘98 XC locally…maybe grab its axles and flip the OE CVs to the other side / regrease and re-boot on the bench?
( if they’re any good?)
 
^Really don’t? :e-shrug:
Although, at this time, kids out of the house and no pets (all died recently), so a bit more?
But, mostly choose to spend it on spend it on other things & be real calculating with effort or dollars on the cars as a sort of ‘un-car car-guy’ / dyed in wool 145 owner?

The car isn’t dead-dead / moves under its own power and summer months I barely need a car / mostly just drive work’s cars & E-bike than pay to maintain / feed *any* car (whatever it is?).

Just have these leftover cars I’m finally getting around to fix up a bit, drive a bit and 80/20 clear off, so it’s not like I have to clear it out of my repair shop / order a new axle at production speed, but I also don’t necessarily do a lot of miles, so recombining used parts is probably ‘fine?’

Whole car’s used, who are we kidding here?, but I’ll be grumpy if I have a premature unexpected comeback?
Sort of a weird combo of planned / considered & ‘meticulous maintenance’ & ‘managed neglect,’ if you will?

How much wear is an OE outer CV end likely to have on the reversing side of the housing for the CV balls if all the grease and boots are intact?

Only do ~1000-3500mi/yr (maybe?) spread over 1-3 cars at a given time & 4-6k E-bike?

I’d get an electric car, but the flat EV registration fee, stupid expensive delicate low profile rubber band tires & multiple computers and modules to babysit / more skynet in general on most newer cars exceed the annoyance of older ICE vehicle maintenance on permanent registration old car collector plates or stickers at this time?

Just trying to get down the road as far as I can for the least $ a little longer term sans surprises in the future w/ what I have at hand / around and what I’ve observed that lasts a bit longer and what doesn’t?

Removed plenty of aftermarket axles that failed early / weren’t that old and replaced w/OE axles w/ (@ least?) outer ends flipped sides / cherry picked w/better results most times if it’s not a huge rush to turn the car around / get it out the door?

Anyone have pics to ID the various OE and aftermarket CV ends?
Is how they’re clocked on the axle shafts important for balance and vibes or do they only spline one way on these?

I guess I’ll punch mark them and just be careful with my primitive / basic measuring tools etc?

Or do you mean length of posts?
It’s <1-2min/post?
200words/min / training in careers (never really pursued?) where that might be useful? Idk? :e-shrug:
 
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