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Regina no start

C

cammyers

New member
Joined
Aug 27, 2023
I'm looking for help dialing in a no start situation with a 1993 945 and a Regina ignition. I've searched and am suffering from TMI and need help dialing this in. A lot of troubleshooting is for a Bosch, too many differing opinions on how and what order to test, too many willing parts hangers, and on and on...

I believe I have a bad coil or more specifically a bad amplifier. Car ran great until I decided to clean under the hood with a pressure washer but really I just killed something that was on it's way out. So, I've got no spark coming out of coil. I did replace crank sensor but only because wiring was in poor condition albeit with a cheapie to have it to me quickly. I do now have em2 on the fuel pump relay staying on while cranking. Does this confirm pulse signal from crank sensor is working? At the coil I have 12Vdc at 2 outer wires of 3 pin connector to power stage. Middle pin tested for a good ground. Other 2 pin plug, dunno what to check for on those. Also measured 3.5Vac~ at the power stage as well. Measured the pass through current to the coil from 1 of the 12V leads at the power stage. So, I still feel like I'm guessing but I'm thinking coil is bad or more likely the power stage. Actual coil bench tested properly - although I don't think that test is 100% but that also let me rule out bad contacts from amplifier to coil. Looks good there.

Ok, that's all I have. Looking forward to hearing back from everyone!
 
cammyers said:
1993 945 and a Regina ignition..pressure washer...spark coming out of coil...crank sensor...em2???...fuel pump relay..pulse signal from crank sensor
Click to expand...

Rex-I receives crank signal, and then passes it on to Regina. If Rex does not have a good voltage from crank sensor, then Regina can't energize (via grounding) injectors. Rex can still energize spark plugs. So, injectors must have 12 volts with engine cranking, with Regina grounding them out intermittently when engine is cranked over. Injectors have 12 volts with engine cranking?

I've had a newish CPS not put out enough voltage...and Regina did nothing.

Fuel pressure tested after turning key to on?

Over in battery area, IIRC, is the relay that provides power to the injectors. If this area was powered washed....relay or its wiring might be the issue.

I've got the tech info, but I'm not sure if it is on a dead computer, or my laptop. I'll have to fire up the laptop.
 
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I just recently bought a 90 7 series with Regina; searching eBay for a 90+ wiring diagram and diagnositics..... not much there to be had, but a seller in AZ had a "preliminary issue" Regina manual which might help you.

Sounds like 84B23F is quite experienced with Rex & Regina (I'm a rookie). No doubt, the pressure washing must have taken something to ground that was still hot (like the relay he mentioned... has battery power). As stated, I know the CPS proper signal is absolutely a permissive to get fuel.

Dont' know if the 7 series Regina is identical to the 9 series, but I would suspect yes.

Last - does the small diagnostic module underhood near the Regina coil tell you anything? Do you know how to use it?
 
As a Regina fan myself I'll just throw in that I have seen an ignition module go bad. Now that was on a car that sat in an alley in Pittsburgh for 7 years and the insulation goop was visibly cracked/oozing etc... but it does happen. In the past I usually kept a junkyard spare in the parts stash.
 
ortho stice said:
As a Regina fan myself I'll just throw in that I have seen an ignition module go bad. Now that was on a car that sat in an alley in Pittsburgh for 7 years and the insulation goop was visibly cracked/oozing etc... but it does happen. In the past I usually kept a junkyard spare in the parts stash.
Click to expand...
This is where I think I am. Don't have any ooze but cracking, yes. I'm happy to hear your anecdote as I haven't read of the module being as common as TPS, FPR, RSR, CPS, etc. There just isn't many other choices as I've been through almost everything
 
DET17 said:
I just recently bought a 90 7 series with Regina; searching eBay for a 90+ wiring diagram and diagnositics..... not much there to be had, but a seller in AZ had a "preliminary issue" Regina manual which might help you.

Sounds like 84B23F is quite experienced with Rex & Regina (I'm a rookie). No doubt, the pressure washing must have taken something to ground that was still hot (like the relay he mentioned... has battery power). As stated, I know the CPS proper signal is absolutely a permissive to get fuel.

Dont' know if the 7 series Regina is identical to the 9 series, but I would suspect yes.

Last - does the small diagnostic module underhood near the Regina coil tell you anything? Do you know how to use it?
Click to expand...
DO NOT BUY ANYTHING - there is too much out there for free. Including(good) wiring diagrams. You should be able to find links here on turbobricks and if not I'll point you in the right direction. No codes that would point to a no start condition. On and off tps and lambda before the no start condition. Nothing new now. 700 & 900 are identical systems.
 
84B23F said:
Rex-I receives crank signal, and then passes it on to Regina. If Rex does not have a good voltage from crank sensor, then Regina can't energize (via grounding) injectors. Rex can still energize spark plugs. So, injectors must have 12 volts with engine cranking, with Regina grounding them out intermittently when engine is cranked over. Injectors have 12 volts with engine cranking?

I've had a newish CPS not put out enough voltage...and Regina did nothing.

Fuel pressure tested after turning key to on?

Over in battery area, IIRC, is the relay that provides power to the injectors. If this area was powered washed....relay or its wiring might be the issue.

I've got the tech info, but I'm not sure if it is on a dead computer, or my laptop. I'll have to fire up the laptop.
Click to expand...
Please, humor me. Rex-I & Regina; one is ECU and one is ignition control? I've never heard it referred in it's "proper name" This is why you are the whisperer
 
cammyers said:
Please, humor me. Rex-I & Regina; one is ECU and one is ignition control? I've never heard it referred in it's "proper name" This is why you are the whisperer
Click to expand...
Yes, Rex is the ignition side and Regina is the fuel computer side of the engine management. Useless trivia: They are GM parts used in their Euro cars. Map sensor based system similar to how many systems are now. Doesn't use a mass airflow sensor.
 
I saw the GM map sensor on the strut tower. Hidden under 2 lbs of tin to conceal it's identity. Bendix sticker on brake booster, also. Thought I was working on an AMC. Funny, ironic, ridiculous. Your choice.
 
84B23F said:
Rex-I receives crank signal, and then passes it on to Regina. If Rex does not have a good voltage from crank sensor, then Regina can't energize (via grounding) injectors. Rex can still energize spark plugs. So, injectors must have 12 volts with engine cranking, with Regina grounding them out intermittently when engine is cranked over. Injectors have 12 volts with engine cranking?

I've had a newish CPS not put out enough voltage...and Regina did nothing.

Fuel pressure tested after turning key to on?

Over in battery area, IIRC, is the relay that provides power to the injectors. If this area was powered washed....relay or its wiring might be the issue.

I've got the tech info, but I'm not sure if it is on a dead computer, or my laptop. I'll have to fire up the laptop.
Click to expand...
I do have 12V at the injectors. Does this confirm good CPS signal to Rex-i and passed onto Regina? I'm setting up next to test fuel pressure but looks like I'm still pointing to the coil/amplifier. What does the amplifier do that would keep the coil from working? Can I melt out the goo and see a potential fault? It's some sort of relay or transformer I assume?
 
I would pull off a plug wire and insert a spark plug and test for spark. If there isn't anything. Then next I'd use a test light on the input signal to the coil. The fuel injection grounds out the injectors to control fuel so having 12v is good but only part of the picture. You can also remove the fuel return hose from the regulator and put a piece of hose on it into a container and see if you get fuel when cranking. You can also pull codes from these systems. I don't know the procedure but it's straightforward.
 
Thanks for weighing in but if you read the original post, I shared that I don't have spark and I have 12v going to coil and no codes related to a no start.
 
Coil brought this car back to life. It's a reasonable aftermarket brand and it doesn't fit properly into the amplifier and it's broken and I overpaid but the car runs . New coil won't push in as far or nest into the contacts on the amplifier and loses contact when hitting a bump. Good FYI for the 7 Regina guys still out there and the 2 or 3 Cherokee guys, too. The adventure continues! Another part to only spec certain brands or else
 
cammyers said:
Coil brought this car back to life.
Click to expand...
Good to hear...FWIW

MasterPro Ignition Control Module - 2LX931 - See Compatible Vehicles
Square Coils are cheap at Rock Auto...$10.00 and upwards.

I replaced both several years ago, and placed existing ones in the trunk.

>I do have 12V at the injectors. Does this confirm good CPS signal
>to Rex-i and passed onto Regina?

Negative....it does mean that relay by the battery is working.
 
84B23F said:
Good to hear...FWIW

MasterPro Ignition Control Module - 2LX931 - See Compatible Vehicles
Square Coils are cheap at Rock Auto...$10.00 and upwards.

I replaced both several years ago, and placed existing ones in the trunk.

>I do have 12V at the injectors. Does this confirm good CPS signal
>to Rex-i and passed onto Regina?

Negative....it does mean that relay by the battery is working.
Click to expand...
I think that is radio suppression relay you are referring to?? Wow! $60 for that. Nice work. I'm seeing used coil+module for $150+ used on ebay. Dang, glad I reached out. Thank you!
 
If I still had one in my garage I'd send it to you, but my last one is long gone. Glad it's back on the road! Enjoy your excellent fuel economy!
 
cammyers said:
radio suppression relay
Click to expand...
Terminology....see 464 & 135 relays: Maybe 464 relay was updated later to a suppression relay.

Ebay - To many trying to fleece us there and other places, including Amazon...get a part number and Google around.
Screenshot 2023-08-31 123356.jpg
 
464 or "auxiliary relay" is fuel injection/suppression relay it appears? This is a new or related issue for me now. No start but will start if jumped. On this relay; one side is hot and the other side is commanded by ??? I wanted to ask for you to again help me cut to the chase before I spend 2 more hours deciding who is correct and how it works and before I deem the relay no good. Now, assuming it is the relay, it appears to be as basic as relays get. Can I upgrade it to a standard bosch relay with a nice weatherpack connector? My plug is corroded and the plastic insulation around the bullet connectors is crumbling.
 
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