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T5 swap, all you need to know

I have been trying to get a good T5 for a reasonable price. I found a T5 for an 84-92 camaro / firebird. It will be for my 745. It has a spline count of 14. I am not sure if this is right or will work?? Any more info or help would be great.. Thanks
 
An e mail I just recieved today:

We are now in the process of doing a modified Volvo clutch fork, so ship yours along with the bell housing so it can be modified to fit the Ford throwout bearing.

Regards,
John
Vintage Performance Developments

:-D One less thing I have to worry about. Looks like the stock ford throwout bearing will now be a perfect fit. :-D

I do have one question though, for those of you who have a t5 installed...
What gear ratio t5 are you running? I had planned on a 3.35 first t5 but just came across a 2.95 from a friend who would part with it for $250 (95k on it). The 1st gear ratio sounds a little high to me and I dont know if my cars got the low end tourque to pull that 1st, considering our m46's 2nd is only a tad higher :e-shrug:
Comments please! Thanks, Noah
 
Pengee: I don't think spline count is much of an issue when you're trying to install a part from one vehicle manufacturer into another, different vehicle. The main concern is usually dimensions. So long as it's not too wide, not too long, not too tall, and everything lines up correctly (or nearly correctly), it should work. The reason the Ford version of the T5 is singled out here is because that's what's been the most popular here. The GM unit is similar, just designed for a GM car. If you can get it to work (no reason you shouldn't, so far as I can see), go for it and post a write-up of your experience.
As a matter of fact, if you're putting one in a 700 series, the GM unit seems to have better-fitting dimensions (namely, the shifter lines up much better) than does the Ford unit. I would be very interested in seeing if that'll work!
As for parts, I would imagine any available Ford-based bellhousing modifications, etc., would be a bolt-on situation. The only thing I believe would be different from the situation discussed here for the Ford unit is the clutch disc, the output shaft, the TO bearing, and the pilot bearing. I assume the clutch fork would be different, too, but you could simplify things greatly, and not need to worry about fork modifications, if you went with a hydraulic TO bearing (see http://www.mcleodind.com).

Hope this helps!

FYI- I'm currently working on getting a Ford T5 into my 744. I'll let everyone know how that goes when I get done.
 
I can get my hands on numerous T5 transmissions with the serial number 1352-169. the input shaft length is 7.18 and the input shaft pilot diam. is .668. http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm Will the pilot bearing be a direct fit into the crank of my 240? Also will the input shaft be the right length with the adapter plate? I'm hoping this is the trans that will work since I'm very interested in doing this conversion so I can have a strong transmission with a real 5th gear instead of that electric OD. Also with the first gear being 3.35:1 is this short enough for a NA 240 brick that was originally an auto to pull just fine?
 
I'll check the dimensions of the input shaft/etc on my T5 tomorrow morning. Keep your eyes posted for them.
BTW: as for the McLeod hydraulic TO bearing, there are some very minor issues with proper fit and length, as I've discovered today. Again, details tomorrow.
 
Well, it's not "tomorrow." Bite me. But here we go.

Measured just a few minutes ago, with everything all installed and ready to bolt to the motor, then drop in the car (BH, hyd TO bearing, adaptor plate). That does not, however, mean I have bad measurements--I was able to measure directly from the input shaft to the adaptor plate surface via a small hole in the OE BH.
Input shaft length with adaptor plate attached to T5 face: 6.590 inches. Add exactly .500 inch if you want it without the adaptor plate factored in: 7.090 inches.
Input shaft pilot bearing location OD: .668 inch.
Pilot bearing ID: .700 inch (note: the bearing was already installed in the motor, and the motor is on a stand with only an inch or so clearance--not enough for my calipers. The measured ID is that of the inside body of the bearing--there are also rollers in the body that protrude inwards so as to make snug contact with the input shaft pilot bearing surface. I would estimate the pilot bearing ID with rollers factored in is closer to .675 inch).
Input shaft protrusion past BH-to-motor surface: .625 inch.

As for fitment as per your numbers, I think the dimensions are exactly identical, menaing you're looking at the same T5 I am. My .668 is a solid dead-on accurate number. There may be a very slight variance with my 6.590 measurement, perhaps .010 inch? That would put is absolutley dead-on accurate with your 7.180 inch measurement, if my .010 variance is factored in.
What I'm saying is, if the particular transmission you refer to is a good price, or easily available, I see absolutley no reason in the world you wouldn't be able to bolt it right up with JP's adaptor kit. Go get it!
 
Alright! For all you interested in using a hydraulic throwout bearing rather than the fork-actuated TO bearing, listen up!

JP at VPD offers the adaptor kit for swapping a T5 into a 200, and also a 700 with the shifter a bit further forward. This much I hope you know by the time you get to this point in the thread :grrr: .
I have talked with John a bit about my using a hydraulic TO bearing made by McLeod, and he has shown interest in my fitment. He has also shown intrest in my fitment of the T5 into a 700, as no one has reported back to him on that matter (lots of 200s, though).
Reasons I decided on a hyd TO versus the common fork. I was converting from an auto to a manual, so I was literally starting from scratch, including pedals. This made for a good starting point for something different, and maybe better. From some brief reading on some Ford boards, I concluded that the hyd TO was easier to set up, less labor-intensive (long-term I mean: less adjustment, etc), and the biggest advantage was nearly no increased pedal effort when running a substantially modified pressure plate or clutch disc; it was this reason that was my final determining factor, as I'm running a 100% over stock clamping pressure pressure plate.
I went with McLeod's product simply because I had a devil of a time finding anyone else that made a hyd TO for a Ford. Lots of Chevy and Mopar, only one Ford. Cheapest place to get it is Dark Horse Performance in Renton, WA, even though the McLeod facility is 20 minutes from my house.
When ordering the part, you need the BOLT-ON model, NOT the slip-on; the slip on will be too long at it's shortest adjustment. The bolt-on can be shortened or lengthened via different length pistons, versus a threaded collar for the slip-on. You will need part number 1319, and specify that you need the #6 piston installed (or you will be swapping pistons 'til next year. And if you don't live in SoCal, shipping can get pricey with three or four swaps). With the #6 piston, and JP's adaptor kit, you'll have the required .141 inch clearance (required: .100-.300 inch).
When getting the adaptor plate and modified bellhousing, you won't need the centering ring JP provides, but you will need the BH hole to be bored to 4.685 inches (.010 inch is the difference between a tranny that lasts 10 miles or 100,000 miles). JP currently bores it out to a much smaller diameter (4 inch??? :e-shrug: ). The larger hole is to allow the hyd TO to be bolted to the T5; the hole will also be used to center the tranny to the engine, and will use the base flange of the McLeod bearing to do the centering (currently being done via the supplied centering ring JP makes).
BTW-- the hyd TO bearing replaces the stock bearing retainer on the front of the T5. You will no doubt be removing the one that's on there (steel is aftermarket, BTW), and installing the McLeod unit with some silicone. Be sure to set up the bearing shims properly before final installation!!!!
If you decide to use the hyd TO bearing, you will not need any clutch fork, additional TO bearing, clutch cable, slave cylinder, or any of the associated machining and adapting each of those needs to get it to work with the T5. You will ONLY need the hyd TO bearing assembly, the modified bellhousing, and the adaptor plate. I also suggest the 36 inch 4-AN braided stainless-steel (teflon-lined) supply line McLeod supplies with their master cylinder kit (PN 13195), however you can either make your own, or adapt whatever the stock unit is (I have no idea, since I'm using the BSS 4-AN line).
And as for those concerned with the proper displacement for the master cylinder. McLeod offers a master cylinder add-on kit to the hyd TO bearing assembly (part number 13195), which, among other things including the BSS 4-AN line, includes a Wilwood 3/4 inch ID bore master cylinder that bolts up perfectly with the stock master cylinder mounting location. The only modification would be to cut 1/2 inch off the end of the threaded pushrod, and to fit the stock clutch pedal attachment fitting on the end (I JBWelded it as a back-up, with some bolts being my main means of attachment). ......... Now, with that said, I see no reason you can't use the stock master cylinder. The inside bore of the stock unit is also 3/4 inch, and the outlet fitting seems to be identical. I did note the only difference seemed to be an additional 1/2 inch stroke in the Wilwood (McLeod) unit, but I doubt this will be accounted for with the non-adjustable pedal travel of the stock Volvo clutch pedal. For those scratching their head, I'm using the WilWood unit for three reasons: 1) I already have it, 2) it's Wilwood--I mean, c'mon!, 3) in seeing if I could get the Volvo pedal mount off the shaft of the stock unit I broke the plastic piece, effectively making the stock unit worthless, and accomplishing what I would need to do anyway for the Wilwood. ......... Now if you use the Wilwood (McLeod) MC, you're going to lose about an inch of clearance from the MC to the shock tower. This is unfortunately right where the outlet line of the MC is, and with the BSS 4-AN line, I can't get it in there. What I'm doing instead is using an Earl's adaptor: banjo-to-4AN. If you opt for the stock MC, I highly doubt you'll have clearance problems.

A word of note. This is going into my '86 744ti. The motor is an '83 B23F, with a '79 B21 crank. The original tranny is an AW-71. I have had no fitment issues whatsoever with this combination, other than what I have described above.
Another word of note. I do not have it in the car yet. Everything is sitting in the garage right now, but should be in the car by Monday (it damn well better be--I start a new job position then and need transportation!). I see no futher issues with getting it to fit, save maybe making up a shifter extension. And the obligatory tranny mount and driveshaft.

BTW--for the electrical hook-ups (reverse light, neutral safety switch), I simply pulled the wiring harness off the AW-71 shifter assembly (four wires) and soldered it into the two switches on the T5. The top/front/center switch is neutral safety, the center/center/DS switch is reverse light. Extremely easy to do!

I will be contacting JP with the information about fitting the hyd TO bearing, and what he would need to do to begin selling an all-inclusive kit. I will also let him know how it goes with fitting it into a 700, with perhaps including a shifter extension and tranny mount adaptor in the kit. If you're looking for a package deal with everything you'll need for the whole swap (except the driveshaft, and the actual T5 itself), wait several weeks, or even a few months for John to get it all together.

Hope this helps those of you considering the T5 swap. And I hope this helps with deciding if you want to run a hyd TO bearing, or the stock fork.
 
Hey Mach375, Thank you for taking your time to measure your tranny. I can get a hold of that tranny which is rated at 260ft/lbs torque for $260 from a car enthusiest near me. It's a great price for a 89 tranny that doesn't grind in any gear. Now, I know I have to get the adapter plate/modify fork or get hyd TO/shorten driveshaft but what slip yoke will fit the t5 and also use the 240 u-joints? I talked to the Volvord guy and he said on his 740 a 80-82 Auto Thunderbird's slip yoke will fit the u-joints of a 740 driveshaft and have same spline as t5. Will that be the case for a 240?
 
You're welcome.

The spline count is dependent on the vehicle application the trans was originally intended for. If it's a T5, you'll need to get a slip yoke for either a Ford or a GM, depending on where you got your tranny. As for the U-joint end-cup size, I have no idea. I've heard the T-bird fits the 700 yoke, but I have not tried it.
Now here's something you forgot: driveshaft length. Spline count and yoke size are great, but if you're going to use the stock Volvo DS, and it ends up being three inches too long, or an inch too short, you're SOL. You can usually find a local DS specialist, or even your local transmission shop, that can build you a driveshaft to whatever specifications you like, and usually for around $100. $100 ain't bad! And it gets rid of the two-piece DS the Volvos have.
So to answer your question, I have no idea. I'm not familiar with 200s except for what I've digested on this site, and what is shared with the 700s. Instead of adapting a slip yoke to a stock DS, just have a DS made up.
 
there's a reason the driveshaft is two piece, has something to do with harmonics/stress for single piece shafts over a certain length, one of the v8 swap guys had a *very* detailed writeup on what all was involved and why
 
linuxman51 said:
there's a reason the driveshaft is two piece, has something to do with harmonics/stress for single piece shafts over a certain length, one of the v8 swap guys had a *very* detailed writeup on what all was involved and why
Click to expand...

iirc...Paul Schuh got a custom carbon driveshaft made for his 245 for (what did you tell me Paul?) $600? it sounded like it was very good quality and lightweight....id cconsider that, excpet that looking at it now, it would cost as much as a t5 swap...oh well, I can dream, can't i?
 
wadejg wrote a long time ago:
[quote:1e92fcdef8]Also, Jags That Run sells a speedo cable for $55 that is from the T5 to the Volvo 200 series speedo cable (Chevy T5 but can't imagine it wouldn't work for a Mustang T5 too). [/quote:1e92fcdef8]

As it turns out the Ford T5 and the Chevy T5 are as different as can be when it comes to the speedo cable. The JagsThat Run cable and gear cages from the GM T5 will not fit the Ford T5. Even the plastic gears are not close.

CRAP! If anyone needs a brand new JagsThatRun GM T5 (or T56) to Volvo 240 speedo cable and associated gear housing with speedo gear assortment, let me know.
Dave B.
 
Also, the NAPA speedo cable listed in this article, part number 48403, does not correspond to any speedo cable NAPA offers.
Dave B.
 
Not a concern if you've got the diff-mounted speedo sensor for the 700s or 900s.

Dave--you going to the huge NorCal/SoCal meet in SB in April?
 
I don't think I'll be fitting a 700 diff. I think I can splice a Ford end onto a Volvo cable and get it to work.

I'm not sure about the Santa Barbara thing. I want to go, but my work schedule is interfering. I might be able to work it out.
Dave B.
 
linuxman51 said:
there's a reason the driveshaft is two piece, has something to do with harmonics/stress for single piece shafts over a certain length, one of the v8 swap guys had a *very* detailed writeup on what all was involved and why
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed any odd vibration in mine at 120+, though its atleast 3" in DIA (I think 3.25 iirc). Its a beast.

Dave, you could also use the sensor ring from a later 240, or Autometer sells an electronic retrofit for ford transmissions (what I use) and an aftermarket speedo (which I doubt you want to do).
 
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