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Talk me into the T5 swap

ravennexus said:
haha you like them i aready got rid of the bertone seats cause there awefull, door panels are next i've got some stock 242 ones which i'll paint black.

sorry for going OT
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man.. guess it just looks sick in my car.. 81 black 240 2-dr.. bertone front and rear seats and door panels.. limo tinted rear windows.. yeah.. now has bertone chrome mouldings.. bling bling
 
there going as i ain't into huggy bear pimp style.

i'd quite fancy a T5 swap instead of getrag, with the one problem i have over you fellows . the T5 only came in ford cossies and TVR's over here, neither of which is good for one wallet :).

where as getrags popup now and again for less money, i'll have to pull mine and see where is leaking from.
 
As jackbombay said, the clutch cable is new (and looks it), but the clutch is still really tough and (dis)engages really close to the floor. I got it up on ramps a few days ago and tried to adjust the cable. There's no free play to speak of at the fork. So I adjusted it almost all the way one direction and still didn't notice any free play... but the clutch wouldn't disengage (grinding gears--eek!). So I adjusted back the other way, still trying to find some free play at the fork, and it's still just a tough clutch.

I have to be honest: I know hardly anything about the mechanics of a manual transmission. (Well, I've read the "theory" but I've never pulled a tranny or replaced a clutch.)

Patt (tuff240) said that when he put the CF clutch in, it was the only model CF sold for the Volvo (9" clutch on this one, I believe). He said it was no more than 10% to 15% stiffer than stock, if that.

I really don't know if it's just worn or what, or if I just don't know anything about adjusting the cable.

It's good to hear about the T5 swap being done for as little as $1000. That's really a whole lot better than my estimates. I know I need to find a tranny for a good price (anyone got any leads?) and then it's just a matter of getting all the other bits and pieces (looks like most of them can come from John Parker at v-performance).

I haven't read up on the Getrag swap, and my intention isn't to disparage it at all. The T5 tranny should be fairly plentiful near me, I'd think, whereas we don't see a lot of old BMWs or Volvos in the boneyard around here (redneck Kentucky).

My thinking is to go with a regular World Class T5 (not the Z), and to find a clutch/pressure plate that's a nice balance between the easy pedal of a stock clutch and the grippiness of a high performance clutch. I want it to have a fighting chance of holding around 15 psi of boost (maybe a little more eventually) while not killing the legs for in-town driving.

Thanks for all the advice so far gentlemen...
Aaron
 
you could try spacing the pivot out a little. that would change the angle of the clutch fork freeing up some slack on the cable. which would hold you over till the T5 swap is ready to go in.
 
mfpmax said:
World Class T5s come standard in all Mustangs(and some other T5 equipped vehicles) after 1985. So it won't be hard finding them.

The T5Z is a Ford Motorsports aftermarket transmission.

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html
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won't be hard finding after someone already pulls it for you and sells it at a markup :-P seriously though, i have not seen a t5 from a v8 at the nor cal valley pick n pulls.. coincidentally 4 getrag 265s and plenty of getrag 262s (4 speed)..

-patg
 
mfpmax said:
World Class T5s come standard in all Mustangs(and some other T5 equipped vehicles) after 1985. So it won't be hard finding them.

The T5Z is a Ford Motorsports aftermarket transmission.

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html
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then i dont know what i have 1352-249 330 ftlbs for 300.00 (lucky junk yard find)
i was going to go gatrag but could not find one .
i called every yard with in 100 miles; no getrags, but they all had T-5s

oregon must have less stuck up graypupon eatin BMW drivers and more mulet blowin in the wind budwiser drinkin MUSTANG drivers.

tony
 
reeferman said:
then i dont know what i have 1352-249 330 ftlbs for 300.00 (lucky junk yard find)
i was going to go gatrag but could not find one .
i called every yard with in 100 miles; no getrags, but they all had T-5s

oregon must have less stuck up graypupon eatin BMW drivers and more mulet blowin in the wind budwiser drinkin MUSTANG drivers.

tony
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300 bucks for a tranny? heh.. we got 4 trannies for that much :-P

-patg
 
916volvosport said:
won't be hard finding after someone already pulls it for you and sells it at a markup :-P seriously though, i have not seen a t5 from a v8 at the nor cal valley pick n pulls.. coincidentally 4 getrag 265s and plenty of getrag 262s (4 speed)..

-patg
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Yeah, thats what sucks, our yards pull them as well. A friend on here says they have T5s at the lower Cal yards(I think he's in So Cal).

4 Banger T5s are cheaper...but of course have a "sligthly" lower torque rating and different gearing(possibly less desirible). The input shaft is also not the same metal.
 
mfpmax said:
Yeah, thats what sucks, our yards pull them as well. A friend on here says they have T5s at the lower Cal yards(I think he's in So Cal).

4 Banger T5s are cheaper...but of course have a "sligthly" lower torque rating and different gearing(possibly less desirible). The input shaft is also not the same metal.
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:pow: i see 4 cyl t5's all the time.. what's wrong with pulling them myself? just because i save 200 bucks? wowee :-D

-patg
 
reeferman said:
cool you can get four crappy trannys for the cost of a good one.

heh

tony
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Doubtful that even one of those getrag 265's is a crappy tranni. They are known for longevity and durability.

I mean seriously don't argue over what you paid, big F***ing deal, sure you can get a good tranni for almost nothing or you can pay a lot for it, all depends on how the cards fall essentially (I got my getrag just rebuild for -$100 (they paid me $100) and they pulled it for me along with some other parts I wanted.)

Both are good trannys, and obviously the price you pay depends merely on what happens to fall into your lap.

Sean
 
Turborg said:
I recently installed a T-5z into my 82 242 ti, using the adapter from v-performance and the clutchnet pp and clutch. I am totally impressed with the improvement over the M-46 that I had in there. This transmission requires a much heavier pressure plate than the M-46 or a regular T-5. The T-5z has a 2.95 low gear vs 4.01? for the M-46, and 3.31? for the T-5. I don't think a lady would enjoy driving this setup without the hydro clutch. The close ratio trans is a blast to drive tho. No holes between the gears and it shifts great.
I also need to mention that a lot of the people who have done the T-5 swap have had a few problems. When I first put mine in, I could not shift into reverse without shutting the car off. This eventually improved as the clutch wore til it shifts fine when cold, and as long as you put it in a forward gear first, it shifts to reverse fine when it is hot. I believe this problem can be attributed to the clutchnet clutch being .335 thick, compressing to .315. The Volvo plate is .315. I think the extra .020 of the clutchnet plate is enough to turn the input shaft of the trans, causing the shifting problems til the clutch wears. The one other problem that I have is a vibration under hard decelleration. Since I drive in the mountains a lot, using the engine as a brake, this is especially annoying to me. The guys running the T-5 do not report this vibration however, so it might be a T-5z thing. If I solve the vibration problem, I would have nothing but rave reviews for the conversion!!
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I just switched from a two-piece driveshaft to a one-piece, which is what I think most people have done with the T5 swap. I did this to eliminate driveline vibration issues. This change reduced some of the annoying noises, but the vibration/buzzing is still ever present on decel as mentioned above by Turborg. But that is mild compared to below....

There is now a NEW NOISE, but only in 5th gear... Keep in mind: this is in 5th gear ONLY. It's a jackhammer type vibration which can be heard lightly during cruise, but it gets louder as more load is applied. If I give it any boost in 5th, the whole car vibrates pretty violently and I can't see out of the rear view mirrors. This has me puzzled because it doesn't do this in any other gear, so my conclusion is it's the transmission. And I don't see how there is a malfunction in the trans since it only has about 1000 to 1500 miles on it since new. BTW my trans is the T5Z with .63 overdrive 5th. Anyone else have such a noise?
Dave B.
 
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Two 87s said:
I just bought a manual 240 turbo wagon to replace the 940 turbo sedan that my wife drives. (I'm happy enough with the AW71 in my 764ti for now, but my wife demands a manual transmission.) Well, the clutch pedal is really stiff and engages really close to the floor. This was tuff240's brown wagon that I bought from jackbombay, and tuff240 had put a Centerforce clutch in it a while back. I'm starting to think that clutch may be on it's last legs. (I've already tried adjusting the clutch cable and can't get any better performance from it.)

As far as I'm concerned, that leaves me with a choice. I can either replace the clutch with a stock Volvo clutch or replace the entire transmission with a T5.

Either way, I'll be doing the work myself. I'm sure I can do either one (I've done all my own engine and suspension work for the last few years). The car currently runs a selectable 8/15 psi of boost on the B21FT. I know there's a danger that the M46 will eventually go.

With replacing all of the parts that could possibily be worn on the stock/CF clutch, I'm looking at around $500. With the T5 swap, I'm looking at more like $1500 plus the cost of the tranny. (That includes an aluminum flywheel from v-performance, an aftermarket shifter, bellhousing adapter, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, slider yoke, a custom driveshaft locally (estimated at a conservative $200), clutch, pressure plate, modified fork, and speedometer adapter.) My estimates may be a little high, but that's good, as far as I'm concerned.

So the question is: which should I do? If I can get all the parts together, it seems like an equal amount of labor to do each one, and the T5 swap has been tested quite a bit now. The T5 is more expensive, of course. Is it safer than the risk of sticking with a M46 that has an unknown number of miles left in it?

I'm leaning towards the T5, obviously, but I'd like to hear some thoughts from you guys. We've still got the 950 turbo sedan to drive while the swap is done, but I need to get the whole thing finished in the next two months, since I'm moving at the end of July.

Thanks,
Aaron
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A stiff clutch is a symptom of a worn out clutch, and I've heard that Centerforce clutches have a heavy pedal. In addition, the aftermarket clutch cables give a much higher pedal effort. Check the cltuch cable and make sure it is genuine Volvo.
 
Holy thread resurrection!

I've got a T5 and the rest of the parts are on their way from John Parker. But I'm moving in a week, so it will be a little while before the T5 is in.

As far as the stiff clutch on the car now, I've been putting up with it. I think it's a worn-out clutch, honestly. The cable is a new Volvo one, and no amount of adjusting helps.

For a comparison, my mother was down here with her 740 with cable-operated M46 last week. That clutch is insanely easy to push to the floor... it's like a hot knife through butter in comparison to my 245, which is more like pushing your foot through wet concrete. It also engages in the first inch or two of travel.

Anyway, I'll be happy to see the T5 in. Hopefully I'll get it done before classes start in August.

Aaron
 
745T+ said:
In addition, the aftermarket clutch cables give a much higher pedal effort. Check the cltuch cable and make sure it is genuine Volvo.
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I sold him the car and installed the cable and it is genuine Volvo cable and was priced accordingly. The clutch was as stiff when I sold it was when I bought it (I'm not sure how many times I need to say that, having put the last 50,000 miles on the car I am the most qualified person to say this) The clutch was almost brand new (Less than 10,000 miles) when I bought the car and the pedal always required quite a bit of effort. I did not chose the centerforce clutch, I have been in other Volvos with high pressure plate clutches that required way less pedal effort, I would never buy another centerforce clutch for a volvo or any other car.


-Jack
 
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Two 87s said:
It also engages in the first inch or two of travel.
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If I adjusted the clutch so the engagement point was higher then there was no "slack" at the top of the pedal travel, I'm sure this is what you found out, I like a higher engagement point myself as well...

-JAck
 
mfpmax said:
My car does that when I shift into 5th below "45MPH"...I say that cause I did a swap and probably have the wrong speedo gear.
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Understandable if you're going only 45. Mine vibrates pretty bad at 45 too in 5th, but the engine is probably turning 1500 rpm. I generally don't even shift into 5th until over 60.

The problem I'm having is that the jackhammer vibration continues noticably to at least 100 mph and then begins to diminish.
Dave B.
 
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