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valve springs

red740t said:
will the VW retainers work with the volvo keepers?
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Yeah, the keepers are the same. I'd recommend something like the SCAT hi-rev keepers though. They actually grip the valve a bit and that helps to reduce the risk of a keeper jumping out.
 
Thank you for checking those springs. :cool: That great information will really help dial in the rev range and lift you want your engine to have. After seeing that info I'm not sure I want to run the beehive springs I bought. The springs would be for use with a V16T cam. I guess it's worth trying since they are installed on the head.
 
culberro said:
OK, so I did some spring measuring, and compiled some notes from all the spring sets I've measured.

You will find the spring force at installed height (38mm/1.5in), force at bind and bind height, max lift (bind height +1mm), spring rate, and spring force at 12mm lift using a 38mm installed height. Now you can move the spring forces around with spring shims and playing with the installed height.

Stock small diameter spring: 55-60lbs @ 38mm, Coil Bind: 200-210lb @ 24.8mm, max lift ~12.2mm. Rate: ~265lb/in. 185lbs @ 12mm lift
Retainer/spring mass: 18g, 40g

Stock MID diameter spring, OD 29mm: 70lb @ 38mm, Coil Bind: 200lb @ 24.5mm, max lift ~12.5mm. Rate: ~243lbs/in. 185lbs @ 12mm lift.
Retainer/spring mass: 19g, 48g

Old RSI(?) single spring and Large dia OEM retainer: 135lb at 38mm, Coil Bind: 280lb @ 22.6mm, max lift ~14.4mm. Rate: ~240lb/in. 250lbs @ 12mm lift
Retainer/spring mass: 21.4g, 48.8g

Single Culberro Spring: 110lb @ 38mm, Coil Bind: 230@21.3mm, max lift ~ 15.5mm. Rate: ~210lb/in. 210lb @ 12mm lift
Retainer/Spring mass: 19g, 46.8g

Yoshifab Beehive: 108lb @38mm, Coil Bind: 240@24mm, max lift ~13mm. Rate: 240lb/in. 220lbs @ 12mm lift.

Erland Cox Dual Springs: 100lbs @ 38mm, 275lbs @ 16mm lift (bind is 19mm), Rate: 275lb/in. 230lbs @ 12mm lift

BTR SP008: 70lb @ 38mm, Coil Bind: 275lb @ 22.1mm, max lift 14.9mm, rate 330lb/in. 225lbs @ 12mm lift.
Spring mass: 38.6g
For BTR SP008 use Ferrea retainer #E12014, will need to find lower spring seat or use small diameter Volvo spring seat with excessive play.

I'll weigh some retainers and add their weights later on. If anyone has the weight of the Yoshifab retainer, that would be great!
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culberro said:
I'll make a shared g-doc for the info, and update it as I measure more springs.
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Beauty.
 
culberro said:
I'll make a shared g-doc for the info, and update it as I measure more springs.
Click to expand...

culberro said:
And Done: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1loYP0y8YcifGIaVvr8JKnAcBQscUKzfzy9CCfjYJ7to/edit?usp=sharing

I was going to add in the KL Racing single and duals that I've installed.. but they are way off from their listed values. I measured the duals at 140lbs installed, and they list them at 100-110...
I do know their retainers are heavy at 24g
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I?m going to order a set of Scat springs and retainers. I?ll see if I can measure them at my buddies shop and report back
 
culberro said:
And Done: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1loYP0y8YcifGIaVvr8JKnAcBQscUKzfzy9CCfjYJ7to/edit?usp=sharing

I was going to add in the KL Racing single and duals that I've installed.. but they are way off from their listed values. I measured the duals at 140lbs installed, and they list them at 100-110...
I do know their retainers are heavy at 24g
Click to expand...

I added a few more springs, including a set of duals sent in by dl242gt. These appear to be slightly stiffer than the Isky 455-456 that we thought they were.
 
85245avl said:
if the vw springs and keepers work does that mean the scat 37mm type I valves would work too?
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Yes/no. They?re a little longer and don?t play well with stock camshaft base circle diameters.
If you go to a reduced base circle cam, they work great :)

Most of the VW replacement valves are not hard chromed in the stems, so they have to be used with bronze guides or inserts.
 
Gen III/IV Hemis use the same valve spring keepers as Redblocks. The spring retainers (pn 53021676AB) o.d. at 0.890 and i.d. at 0.640 and weigh 8.9g. They have a -0.060 installed height vs the Ford 6.2 Raptor retainers I use with the Ford 4.6 4v springs, I'm not sure how they relate to stock Volvo retainers as far as installed height. I wonder if they would work properly with the BTR springs, they fit well with Manley 221434 beehives that are an upgrade in seat and rate to the Ford spring mentioned previously.

I mention them because they're CHEAP, 4 clams a piece or something like that. I get employee discount at our CDJR store and paid less than $3 ea.
 
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shoestring said:
Gen III/IV Hemis use the same valve spring keepers as Redblocks. The spring retainers (pn 53021676AB) o.d. at 0.890 and i.d. at 0.640 and weigh 8.9g. They have a -0.060 installed height vs the Ford 6.2 Raptor retainers I use with the Ford 4.6 4v springs, I'm not sure how they relate to stock Volvo retainers as far as installed height. I wonder if they would work properly with the BTR springs, they fit well with Manley 221434 beehives that are an upgrade in seat and rate to the Ford spring mentioned previously.

I mention them because they're CHEAP, 4 clams a piece or something like that. I get employee discount at out CDJR store and paid less than $3 ea.
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That?s some great info, thanks!
 
I picked up a set (16) of the BTR LS9/LT1 Titanium retainers (SR010-16), these are the same dimensions at the Ferrea E12014, but a fraction of the cost. Now to find some spring seats that will fit the ID of the springs nicely.

Edit: Welp the retainers are for LS keepers, which are ~ 0.5mm larger in diameter than Volvo triple grooves. This results in the keepers hanging out the bottom, not good.
You could use the LS keepers in the middle groove, which is very similar to what Erland does with his race single-groove valve spring kit. The keepers actually grip the valve, and take a lot of the load off the keeper groove.
 
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Welp looks like my favorite BTR springs are NLA.
PAC 1223 or 1223X is still available and similar rates.
 
redblockpowered said:
Sounds like someone has been leaking my research.
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Lol, just looking through catalogs for years. The PAC springs came down in price a lot (and honestly are available again), which makes them a more viable option.

I was thinking of offering a drop in spring kit with beehives, but the cost to produce the retainers and locators is higher than purchasing them through Summit... sooooooo yeah. I may as well let people know what they can do for cheap-ish (still probably $200-225 for a 8v setup).
 
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culberro said:
I was thinking of offering a drop in spring kit with beehives, but the cost to produce the retainers and locators is higher than purchasing them through Summit... sooooooo yeah. I may as well let people know what they can do for cheap-ish (still probably $200-225 for a 8v setup).
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Well maybe custom retainers and locators are going to be the new thing. The locators I ordered from TrickFlow are way too loose of a fit for my liking.
 
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