Volvo 140 as first car

[Ashtong180]

Hi, to start off, I'm looking for a Volvo as a daily driver/first car, I've been driving my parent's car for about two years and for quite some time I've grown a fondness over the Volvo wagons, specifically the really late 145's and early 240s, I've recently stumbled across an orange '73 145 wagons about 180 miles from me that is absolutely beautiful, and I've gone back and forth with the owner for quite some time and the only things seeming to need fixing are a sender to the oil temp gauge and a window clip. There is a small list of things done to it such as a new transmission installed, I don't really have any mechanical experience at all but I have a couple of friends who say they'd be willing to help me out if I happen to get it. Would this be a waste of my time? I’ve been trying to do my own research and asking around but I haven’t found too much info, the owner sent me a video of the car running and it doesn’t sound too bad at all, there is an intermittent ticking noise which I believe could just be a loose bolt and some squealing noises when it goes up a hill. I don't really care about cosmetics as long as it runs fine and the only thing id really want to install is a working stereo/speakers and maybe a killswitch so it doesn't get swiped. My parent’s don’t think I should get the 140 but they approve of an 85’ 240 that popped up that is nice but doesn’t scratch the same itch as the 145. Thank you! I can include the ads if needed.

 

[OVERDRIVE]

I haven't owned a 140, but people that do seem to attest to them being exceedingly difficult to source parts for. In the USA, 1973 will most likely be Bosch D-jetronic, which is a neat system, but I wouldn't want that to be the first system I learned. There's no IC chips or processors in D-jet, it's all transistor, purely analog. The later K-jet system is all mechanical, also a little fussy. If you're into these cars they can be nice reliable injection systems, but they need a thorough understanding of the system often times to get them to that point. I owned a D-jet car when I was 17, I didn't even try to fix it and went straight to carbs. A 240 is a further development from the 140, they improved a lot that makes them just better to use everyday. I would strongly encourage a 1985-1993 240 for ease of learning (lot's of info online to problem solve issues). The 1989-93 cars have an onboard diagnostic system that will give you error codes, handy if you're just learning electronic fuel injection. You're in Portland, finding a cheap 85-93 car should be a piece of cake.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Ever since I had my first Volvo, another 140 (although a truly heinous example), I've always wanted another.

That being said, I did get to learn a lot about them whilst not working on it. You're in the states, so you have it easy with access to parts from VP and other sources, but 140 parts are generally a lot harder to find and usually about 15-40% more expensive than stuff for the more supported cars (2/7/9-series). You can get lucky with certain parts and panels - from the cowl back, they are basically the same as an early 240, albeit with some differences in the rear suspension geometry and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

Like Curtis says, if you have a fuel-injected car, it'll be a headache of a time trying to troubleshoot or chase weird, small issues with the car running. If you have carburetors, get ready to learn all about those.

Also, RUST. Look out for RUST. You're looking at a car from an era when Volvos like to dissolve like antacids when exposed to moisture or salt. I would reconsider if it's been sitting in a field for any amount of time. Consider that if you want to daily drive the thing.

I don't want to be a naysayer, but have another car lined up as backup. I would not suggest solely relying on a now-50-year-old car as a daily driver.

Any pictures of this thing?

 

[JohnMc]

I don't want to be a naysayer, but have another car lined up as backup. I would not suggest solely relying on a now-50-year-old car as a daily driver.

/\ /\ /\ Driving old cars as your only car can be a risky proposition. On the plus side, the old Volvo's are about as reliable as old cars get, given current maintenance and no neglected/postponed repairs. But most of the time you buy an old Volvo, it's because the postponed/neglected repairs and maintenance overwhelmed the previous owner, so you have a big backlog to work through.

D-Jet isn't bad to work with, on the plus side it's pretty simple and only uses a few sensors. If it's not running right there isn't much to check. Just don't start 'tinkering' with it.

 

[James M]

While I loved DDing my last pushrod car (122), and plan to do the same with my current one I will say if you don't have a current grasp on how to fix stuff a 240 is going to be substantially easier to daily drive. Everything from finding parts to information to people with experience on them is going to be easier, and if in good shape they will just go and go without some of the finickier stuff another 10+ years of bring on the road will cause.

If you are willing to get your hands dirty sometimes and want a car as an experience than definitely pick it up. Anything can be daily driven if you put the right amount of effort in

For shits and giggles throw pics up of the two cars, wouldn't want to go recommending either option if one is a clear POS.

 

[spock345]

D-Jet isn't bad to work with, on the plus side it's pretty simple and only uses a few sensors. If it's not running right there isn't much to check. Just don't start 'tinkering' with it.

The challenge is finding the sensors when something fails. With those old Bosch parts you are looking at a few hundred bucks for a part from VP.

Please link the ads.

 

[James M]

The challenge is finding the sensors when something fails. With those old Bosch parts you are looking at a few hundred bucks for a part from VP.

Please link the ads.

Gets pretty pricey if you parts cannon, maybe that's why people don't like them...

 

[JohnMc]

From my own experience, most of the issues were wiring related. Check ohms at the sensor, then check ohms at the ECU plug.

But yeah, I'd probably microsquirt a D-Jet car if I had one.

 

[Ashtong180]

The challenge is finding the sensors when something fails. With those old Bosch parts you are looking at a few hundred bucks for a part from VP.

Please link the ads.

While I loved DDing my last pushrod car (122), and plan to do the same with my current one I will say if you don't have a current grasp on how to fix stuff a 240 is going to be substantially easier to daily drive. Everything from finding parts to information to people with experience on them is going to be easier, and if in good shape they will just go and go without some of the finickier stuff another 10+ years of bring on the road will cause.

If you are willing to get your hands dirty sometimes and want a car as an experience than definitely pick it up. Anything can be daily driven if you put the right amount of effort in

For shits and giggles throw pics up of the two cars, wouldn't want to go recommending either option if one is a clear POS.

Ever since I had my first Volvo, another 140 (although a truly heinous example), I've always wanted another.

That being said, I did get to learn a lot about them whilst not working on it. You're in the states, so you have it easy with access to parts from VP and other sources, but 140 parts are generally a lot harder to find and usually about 15-40% more expensive than stuff for the more supported cars (2/7/9-series). You can get lucky with certain parts and panels - from the cowl back, they are basically the same as an early 240, albeit with some differences in the rear suspension geometry and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

Like Curtis says, if you have a fuel-injected car, it'll be a headache of a time trying to troubleshoot or chase weird, small issues with the car running. If you have carburetors, get ready to learn all about those.

Also, RUST. Look out for RUST. You're looking at a car from an era when Volvos like to dissolve like antacids when exposed to moisture or salt. I would reconsider if it's been sitting in a field for any amount of time. Consider that if you want to daily drive the thing.

I don't want to be a naysayer, but have another car lined up as backup. I would not suggest solely relying on a now-50-year-old car as a daily driver.

Any pictures of this thing?

The 140 ad is from a private group so I’ll have to use screenshots but here’s the 240.
Attached are the the pictures 140, including the ad, a list of the work done, and the “worst” of the rust,

 

[fatcatbestcat]

I can't decide for you, but this is my take.

They're both old Volvos. They're both wagons.

The 245 has one more forward gear and a turbo.
That 145 looks to be in good shape, but considering the listing says "no problem driving in the snow", I would look under it.

If you're looking at it as an investment, 245 has a bit better resale value if you end up deciding it's not for you. Most people don't even know 140s existed.

 

[JohnMc]

140's are the forgotten Volvo. Go to a Volvo show and there's lots of PV's, 122's, 240's, 700, 900 series. Very rarely a 140. I think I've seen more Duetts at VCOA shows than 140's.

I used to have a '72 145 with an automatic. The automatic sucks whatever HP the B20 manages to make and just evaporates it into warmed up ATF. It's not a fun drive. I drove it with the B35 soul sucker for about 4 months before manual swapping it, which made it a much, much, much better car.

 

[Ashtong180]

I can't decide for you, but this is my take.

They're both old Volvos. They're both wagons.

The 245 has one more forward gear and a turbo.
That 145 looks to be in good shape, but considering the listing says "no problem driving in the snow", I would look under it.

If you're looking at it as an investment, 245 has a bit better resale value if you end up deciding it's not for you. Most people don't even know 140s existed.

I have gone back and fourth with both owners and the owner of the 145 was very willing to talk about it all times of the day, we FaceTimed and the underside was spotless. The only reason I’d choose the 245 over it would be reliability and creature comforts but if there’s a possibility I could add those on down the line I wouldn’t mind. What do you think ownership of these cars would differ in regarding upkeep/maintinence? I’m obviously not mechanically inclined as stated but I would love to start working on a car (including my own) but I really don’t know where to start, all the auto shops Ive applied to need experience even for being a tireboy lol. The owner of the 145 sent me a video of them driving it and it does sound a bit odd though, but that just might be because it’s and old car. any input would help, thank you!
https://streamable.com/z44h6n

 

[Ashtong180]

140's are the forgotten Volvo. Go to a Volvo show and there's lots of PV's, 122's, 240's, 700, 900 series. Very rarely a 140. I think I've seen more Duetts at VCOA shows than 140's.

I used to have a '72 145 with an automatic. The automatic sucks whatever HP the B20 manages to make and just evaporates it into warmed up ATF. It's not a fun drive. I drove it with the B35 soul sucker for about 4 months before manual swapping it, which made it a much, much, much better car.

The 140 I am looking at is an automatic, so this wouldn’t really be very ideal for dailying then I suppose?

 

[JohnMc]

I'm just not a fan of automatics in general, but in a 140, it really makes a bigger difference in performance. Not really so much of a difference in reliability.

The 140's B20 is an old 50's pushrod motor. It's not particularly unreliable, but it requires more maintenance. You have to adjust the valves every 5K miles,. You need to adjust the points gap and adjust the timing on roughly a similar time frame. Stuff you don't really have to do on a 240's OHC motor. Easy to do, just takes an hour or so and some cheap tools on a weekend day.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

B20 is deadnuts simple. I never got to drive my 144, but I did get the pleasure of tearing down most of the important parts of the engine, and got to see how it ticks.

You're looking at a reverse-flow OHV 4-cylinder without too many moving parts and with timing gears, not belts or chains. After having "worked" on a D24 for about a year, I really miss that part.

I know you're looking for more of a driver, but do be aware that there isn't much room for "growth" as far as performance goes on a pushrod car. 240 is pretty hard to beat in that aspect.

 

[spock345]

That 145 looks to be in good shape, but considering the listing says "no problem driving in the snow", I would look under it.

They mention some rust on the "rear boot". Rust likes to hide and there is always more than you think. I'd be going over that car with a screwdriver poking all the things.

The BW35 automatic the 140s and early 240s got is a power hog of a gearbox. The AW71 transmission in the 245 is much better, and has an overdrive gear for highway cruising, something you'll definitely want.

I'd go for the 240 as a first car. Hard to go wrong with a turbo wagon.

 

[spock345]

I have gone back and fourth with both owners and the owner of the 145 was very willing to talk about it all times of the day, we FaceTimed and the underside was spotless. The only reason I’d choose the 245 over it would be reliability and creature comforts but if there’s a possibility I could add those on down the line I wouldn’t mind. What do you think ownership of these cars would differ in regarding upkeep/maintinence? I’m obviously not mechanically inclined as stated but I would love to start working on a car (including my own) but I really don’t know where to start, all the auto shops Ive applied to need experience even for being a tireboy lol. The owner of the 145 sent me a video of them driving it and it does sound a bit odd though, but that just might be because it’s and old car. any input would help, thank you!
https://streamable.com/z44h6n

A few red flags as far as a driver goes. All the instrument cluster lights are on at the same time. That is not supposed to happen and indicates electrical problems. The masking tape on the vent window is odd. If the 240 doesn't leak then there is a point for that. Leaky cars suck to live with. I think I also see the rust peeking out from under the window seal, which would be a tricky fix unless you can weld, and will only get worse. Might mean a new hatch entirely.

There is also the strange noise when it is driving, especially up the hill. It almost sounds like pinging (bad engine noises). Something isn't right and it needs to be investigated for it to be worth anywhere near $4500.

 

[James M]

$4500? Guess I didn't read that right, I would not pay that much for that car...

Picking between the two I would recommend the 240 all day long, for $1000 more it seems like you are getting a lot more well sorted car. That being said with some work you can make a 50s tech pushrod car reliable. I put 10k miles on my 122 over the course of a year and while it has some old car related issues I never had to tow it or anything.

1968Volvo was in about the same situation, IIRC 140 as a first car that came in an automatic. He has since manual swapped it and bought a 240 as a daily driver.
My first car was a 280z project that I was always working on, finally bought a 245 and it was dead nuts reliable

 

[Ashtong180]

A few red flags as far as a driver goes. All the instrument cluster lights are on at the same time. That is not supposed to happen and indicates electrical problems. The masking tape on the vent window is odd. If the 240 doesn't leak then there is a point for that. Leaky cars suck to live with. I think I also see the rust peeking out from under the window seal, which would be a tricky fix unless you can weld, and will only get worse. Might mean a new hatch entirely.

There is also the strange noise when it is driving, especially up the hill. It almost sounds like pinging (bad engine noises). Something isn't right and it needs to be investigated for it to be worth anywhere near $4500.

I had talked all of those issues out with the owner and the lights do work but oppositely for some odd reason, the window is missing the clip so they taped the bag on to prevent leaking, the noise really does concern me though. However the owner said they were happy to do $3000 and possibly less on some circumstances. But for now I’m leaning towards the 240.

 

[spock345]

I had talked all of those issues out with the owner and the lights do work but oppositely for some odd reason, the window is missing the clip so they taped the bag on to prevent leaking, the noise really does concern me though. However the owner said they were happy to do $3000 and possibly less on some circumstances. But for now I’m leaning towards the 240.

Still a wiring issue that I'd be wary of depending on your experience with such things. A working car to learn on as things eventually break is better than diving in to one with existing problems until you gain the experience (ask fatcatisbestcat about this, they've been through the crucible).

I made the mistake of diving into a junker first, but I also had another car to run to the junkyard for parts.

1968Volvo was in about the same situation, IIRC 140 as a first car that came in an automatic. He has since manual swapped it and bought a 240 as a daily driver.
My first car was a 280z project that I was always working on, finally bought a 245 and it was dead nuts reliable

Funnily enough my 122S was an automatic but was swapped some time in the 90s. I used it as a daily for a while when my modern VW was taken apart in my driveway for carbon deposit cleaning and a water pump. It worked fine, except for the lack of AC in summer beach traffic.