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We measured Redblock cam valve events; here's what we got.

How are you guys jigging things up? We set up the dial indicator but in order to reach the bucket and clear everything it is at a slight angle. That's going to slightly skew total values. For me it doesn't matter as much because I mostly just need the profile and to use the data to calculate valve acceleration so it's good data. I'll clean up my scratch pad and submit it for posterity.

aKHHAFg.jpg


if any huge brain wants to help me make sense of this hit me up :lol: It'd help if it wasn't translated from Turkish!
http://www.makalesistemi.com/panel/...b5e2d4b7f8963e7535d45e7aa/37506f903036f02.pdf
 
I have a special little finger that screws onto the end of my dial indicator that comes out at like a 75 degree angle so that the indicator's movement is vertical.

That exhaust closing ramp looks pretty aggressive.
 
OK homies, I have got a V inbound, and have yet to do the T we have. I think that should do it for the factory pieces, with the exception of the VX3?
 
Great Work Shoestring!!

I've measured 2 dozen B20 cams, so I know how much time and effort this takes.

Stupid question number one: What is the HOT running clearence of these things?

Also, next time, take .001" measurements atleast for 10? each side of official lash, this will tell you how far you can stretch or shrink for a crude duration test, to give you a direction on which lobe duration next time you pick one.
 
B20Paul said:
Great Work Shoestring!!

I've measured 2 dozen B20 cams, so I know how much time and effort this takes.

Stupid question number one: What is the HOT running clearence of these things?

Also, next time, take .001" measurements atleast for 10? each side of official lash, this will tell you how far you can stretch or shrink for a crude duration test, to give you a direction on which lobe duration next time you pick one.
Click to expand...

Hot valve lash is .35-.45 mm, or 16-19 thou versus the cold .30-.40 mm.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the second part. You mean the difference in duration between tightest possible lash and loosest? I know shoestring and I discussed that at one point and measured it on at least one cam with the difference being pretty trivial (K cam if I recall correctly, with the number being about four degrees which sounds significant until you think of the valve open area). Then again I may be misremembering.

Looking forward to it warming up here in MA so we can do more measurement. Good to hear more people are out there measuring stuff!
 
Great work! IN for 16v cam differences. Penta, vs car. And other offered upgrades would be of epic porportions Sirs.
 
Have you thought of using a softer, but longer, spring under the bucket without a retainer and valve? This would eliminate the duration errors due to the lash. Measuring the cams with lash is lowering the total duration figures and making the opening/closing ramps look more aggressive.

While this is very comparative, it's lacking in accuracy if someone was to compare lift and duration values for a cam that was not measured this exact way.
 
culberro said:
Have you thought of using a softer, but longer, spring under the bucket without a retainer and valve? This would eliminate the duration errors due to the lash. Measuring the cams with lash is lowering the total duration figures and making the opening/closing ramps look more aggressive.
Click to expand...

I didn't, mostly because we measure these out on my daily. I hear what you're saying. If manufacturers advertised what lift value they use, I would have used it. As it is, when I look at other charts displaying similar info (such as the cam chart that's listed on this website under "resources", none of my numbers line up. It looks to me like those may have been measured on "lash plus 0.5mm". It's just a guess, albeit an educated one. Like anything, you don't know what you don't know.

Measuring with the lash provides an accurate representation of what you're getting, installed and running. It may vary slightly if you fudge your lash figure, but I don't think it's going to affect how the engine performs. They're just not that refined.



culberro said:
While this is very comparative, it's lacking in accuracy if someone was to compare lift and duration values for a cam that was not measured this exact way.
Click to expand...

It's why we tried to provide as many duration@lift points as we could think of. Even domestic manufacturers aren't totally comparative. Crane, for example, says seat-to-seat timing is measured at 0.006", Comp says it's at 0.004". Corporate secrets, I guess.

agap.se is very good at showing duration@lift figures. Aside from them, the rest is guesswork.
 
shoestring said:
It may vary slightly if you fudge your lash figure, but I don't think it's going to affect how the engine performs. They're just not that refined.

agap.se is very good at showing duration@lift figures. Aside from them, the rest is guesswork.
Click to expand...
Lash definitely has an effect on how the car runs. Make them too tight and it?ll idle poorly as well as have worse emissions and drivability below 2000rpm or so. At least with a larger than M or T cam, anyway.

Yes, Agap?s info rocks!
 
klr142 said:
Lash definitely has an effect on how the car runs. Make them too tight and it?ll idle poorly as well as have worse emissions and drivability below 2000rpm or so. At least with a larger than M or T cam, anyway.

Yes, Agap?s info rocks!
Click to expand...

You're probably correct here. Sometimes I forget that my perspective is almost exclusively "measureable on a dyno".

Shame on me for the blanket statement.
 
I have an unknown cam I would like to send in to get some more info on. It?s a lower lift cam with a good bit of duration like the older style rally cams and was something I think IPD had a one off made many years ago? So I just box it up and send it over?
 
Custom IPD grind done by Oregon Cam Grinders is boxed up, just need to ship it out... I'm still curious of your T cam data if you can get that measured at some point, too. No rush, of course, as it's just curiosity!
 
Added the Volvo "V" today, and a cam supplied by klr142 we're calling "OC352" because that's the only marking on it.

Currently I run the V in my 240, which is stock B230F (w/EGR), milled 0.040 for 9.8:1, and M47. I used to use the A, but I can say that the V is a little friendlier to the LH2.4. Idle and driveability are a little better (marginal but noticeable), fuel economy MAY be 0.5mpg combined better. MAYBE.

We didn't have time to check the T today, but we will get to it. Given it takes a while to just set it up to check, I'd like to have another on deck when we do it. ENEM V15 or KG003 or something like that would be awesome, something we can all have access to. Any takers?

Big thanks to Kyle for helping to expand the database!
 
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