• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

We measured Redblock cam valve events; here's what we got.

klr142

klr142

Turbo, what?
Joined
May 7, 2004
Location
OR
Me:
I do have one more question for you. I have a camshaft available to me that has a smaller base circle than stock by about 2mm that I am considering running. In your experience, is it safe to run lash caps and shims in the buckets at the same time? The camshaft?s profile is similar to your R33-264-14.0 from the specifications, so it?s pretty aggressive. I do have valve springs set up for 14mm of lift with stainless steel 46/38mm valves, but I am still cautious to run both shims and lash caps at the same time. The last engine this camshaft was in blew a rod through the block and I couldn?t find one of the lash caps after disassembly.

Am I worried about nothing and it?s common for people to run both, or should I set the clearances a different way and just use shims or lash caps to set the clearance?
Click to expand...

Reine from AGAP:
I do not feel it is a problem to use lash caps, the ones I sell sits 2.5 mm down on the valve stem, so for those to come loose it need to be valve float with at least 2.5 mm, if that is happening it would just be a matter of time for something else to brake if there are no lash caps to come loose. The engines that I hear of with these kind of problems is if there are very aggressive, engine speed limiter or launch controls.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'll try this out... :oogle:
 
Matt Dupuis

Matt Dupuis

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Location
Calgary, Ab
As a couple people have pointed out, I did a bunch of work on this back in '09. I took manual lift measurements every degree or two so that I could get a reasonable profile shape, but never published the info. What I didn't do was measure them on an engine like the OP did, which is certainly a nice touch to see how they're ground with respect to advance/retard.

What my test also did was eliminate any flex or whatever might come from having springs installed. This provides a less real-world view of things, but for my purposes it was useful because I wanted the actual lobe profile. My intent was to reverse-engineer any geometry of the bucket/lobe relationship to get a "true" lobe shape... never did. I also measured the cams' lift from the lobes themselves so I could get an idea of the way they ramped up off the base circle, so my .050" correlates to your .035 fairly well but there is some difference between my 0" "valve lift" numbers and yours, as I reported numbers where the lobe lift crossed the .016" threshold and you were using a theoretical .015" lash plus one thou, which SHOULD be the same but I imagine there could have been some variance in the accuracy of your lash.

I skimmed through your data and came up with few surprises. Most of our information agreed for the most part, though the V cam I measured was quite a bit less aggressive than yours was, to the tune of 6-8 degrees at .050". It was also good to see that the IPD Turbo and the Enem V15T indeed appear to be the same - I never got around to verifying that for myself.

Good work!
 
shoestring

shoestring

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Location
Swampscott, 01907
I cross referenced our findings with yours to make sure I was in the ballpark. Years ago I measured directly off the lobes while the cam was in v-blocks and it was a mess: the cams looked so aggressive I didn't understand how they would even run (or at least idle with a factory quality). There is certainly some deflection and such, I wouldn't recommend anyone try to duplicate a cam with the specs posted here.

6-8 degrees at 0.050" is a lot though.
 
klr142

klr142

Turbo, what?
Joined
May 7, 2004
Location
OR
Shoestring, what are the Intake and Exhaust numbers listed on the right lower side of the spreadsheets under the overlap measurements? Maybe I missed their description somewhere. A total lobe area measurement of some sort?
 
Last edited:
klr142

klr142

Turbo, what?
Joined
May 7, 2004
Location
OR
Matt Dupuis said:
Most of our information agreed for the most part, though the V cam I measured was quite a bit less aggressive than yours was, to the tune of 6-8 degrees at .050".
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, I just went back and looked at the charts. Their V cam's measurements pretty closely mirror their measurements for the intake lobe of the IPD VX camshaft.
 
shoestring

shoestring

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Location
Swampscott, 01907
klr142 said:
Shoestring, what are the Intake and Exhaust numbers listed on the right lower side of the spreadsheets under the overlap measurements? Maybe I missed their description somewhere. A total lobe area measurement of some sort?
Click to expand...

Yup. An extremely rudimentary "lobe intensity" measurement.
 
Matt Dupuis

Matt Dupuis

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Location
Calgary, Ab
klr142 said:
For what it's worth, I just went back and looked at the charts. Their V cam's measurements pretty closely mirror their measurements for the intake lobe of the IPD VX camshaft.
Click to expand...

I saw that too. All of the cams I tested looked fine, but obviously their history were unknown so they might have experienced different amounts of wear from the ones other people test. Certainly different from the original grind.
 
shoestring

shoestring

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Location
Swampscott, 01907
klr142

klr142

Turbo, what?
Joined
May 7, 2004
Location
OR
Cool find! It's odd that they have different exhaust and intake lobes shown for the V15NA cam and IPDT cam, considering both of those I think are supposed to be single pattern(also confirmed with your measurements).

And wow, that KG8 is serious!
 
shoestring

shoestring

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Location
Swampscott, 01907
This is a good find. I notice these are from '07-08, and aren't we suspicious that the IPDT has gone through a change?

Yeah, that KG8 IS serious. I've said it before, the KG7 we had sounded like a two stroke. I can only imagine how this one runs (on carbs)!

Looks like our measurements are close(ish), particularly once you get off the ramps and onto the flanks.
 
klr142

klr142

Turbo, what?
Joined
May 7, 2004
Location
OR
shoestring said:
This is a good find. I notice these are from '07-08, and aren't we suspicious that the IPDT has gone through a change?
Click to expand...
Nope. :lol:

At .050" the A cam numbers basically match yours, the K and T cam numbers are quite close as well with some slight variance. I can't explain the IPD or V15 differences that are shown on these spreadsheets, though.

Just think, the KG7 has only "304?" of duration as advertised, the KG8 has 315? and they also offer the KG9 with 324?. KG's camshaft designs just seem to be more of an old school design than the ENEM and AGAP offerings that go with more lift and less duration(relatively speaking, depending on your setup and how aggressive).

If the KG7's LSA was closer to a stock camshaft(108+), it likely would've operated better in a nearer to stock car. Oh well, that's where AGAP comes in, or a custom grind.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top