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240 Weird no-start issue

digital.aaron

digital.aaron

S powered
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Location
turnin up the volume to 11 on the dial
The car:
1976 246
1992 b230f
B cam
Bosch breakerless ignition
Kjet fuel pump&relay
Lh2.2

The problem:
I just finished putting the b230 in last week. The first start was a little rough and took a few tries. I chalked it up to not having gas in the rail. Car ran a minute and then I shut it off. Later that day I started it again to move it out of the garage. The first symptom started happening. I could crack the starter, but after a couple rotations, everything would just chug and the electrical system would quickly fade out. It seemed to do this everything it felt like the engine would actually turn over. But it started and I took it for a short drive up the block and back, and it seemed to run fine. I thought maybe because I hadn't checked the valve shims when I out the b cam in, something was too tight and causing problems. So today I did the shims. None were horribly tight, but still on the lower end of the spec. I put 6 thinner shims in, so I had looser tolerances across 3 cylinders, and thought I was good. I put almost everything back together, with the exception of the coil wire to the distributor. :oops: I didn't realize this before I I tried to crack the engine. But everything sounded good cranking with no spark. I reconnected the coil wire, and double checked everything else to make sure I didn't forget anything. I tried cranking the engine and now I get the same electrical chugging and loss of power even quicker. I haven't been able to start it since. I've also tried giving the wagon a jump start, but it had no effect on the problem.

I made sure to re check the timing each time I had to make adjustments to the cam. I don't think it's mechanical. I suspect my cheapo, but still newish, battery may have crapped out, but was wondering if anyone has seen similar issues before?
 
RE: same electrical chugging and loss of power

Check ground and positive cables...both ends...starter included.
 
Took the battery to Autozone and their hand-held checker said "bad battery". I took the battery back to the shop I bought it at, and the guy wanted to leave it on the charger there overnight, so I left it.

I'm going to check the ground and positive cables and make sure the starter and alt cables are good too. I'm going to verify the coil is within spec as well.
 
Your car is a '76 did you add a k-jet relay or is the fuel wiring all stock? In stock form your car requires a N/C switch on the fuel metering plate (not found on LH2.2) for the pumps to operate.




The larger green relay on the left is what brickers comonly call a "K-jet relay" it is found on all K-jet equipted 240's '78 and latter and can operate the fuel pump(s) when converting to LH. (a '76 240 only has a single fuel pump)

The two ice cube relays on the right are what your car uses in stock form. These work in conjuction with a normally closed switch on the metering plate and with out the switch will only operate the fuel pumps when the starter is engaged.
 
Last edited:
NWVlvTnr said:
Your car is a '76 did you add a k-jet relay or is the fuel wiring all stock? In stock form your car requires a N/O switch on the fuel metering plate (not found on LH2.2) for the pumps to operate.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's original or not, buy I've never touched it. The pumps worked after I did the b23 swap with lh2.2, and they also ran when they were supposed to after the most recent b230 swap.
 
I would investigate the pump wiring, check the stock relays for jumper wires added by former owners. When you did the 2.2 swap did you use the yellow/red wire in the dual tombstone connector above the ECU plug?
 
After looking at the green book it looks like I'm wrong, the metering plate switch functions as a saftey shut off, without it the fuel pump will run whenever the key is in position 2 (run) regardless of the engine running or not. Using the yellow/red wire from the LH 2.2 harness would be a better setup but so long as the second relay is working this won't prevent the car from starting.

http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbooks/TP12043-2_ci_fuel_injection_construction.pdf
 
Yeah, I don't think that is the problem.

I got the battery back and they said it was good, but probably nearing the end of its life due to the abuse it's been through.

So I put the battery back in and was able to get the car started, but it'll crank a couple times and then it's like something is causing extra drag on the engine and the starter can't turn the fly wheel. I had thought this was an electrical issue, but it's still happening on a full charge.
 
digital.aaron said:
Yeah, I don't think that is the problem.

I got the battery back and they said it was good, but probably nearing the end of its life due to the abuse it's been through.

So I put the battery back in and was able to get the car started, but it'll crank a couple times and then it's like something is causing extra drag on the engine and the starter can't turn the fly wheel. I had thought this was an electrical issue, but it's still happening on a full charge.
Click to expand...

pull the spark plugs and see how it spins...
 
84B23F said:
RE: just finished putting the b230 i

History? Rebuild?
Click to expand...

The short history:

the 76 wagon had it's original b21f with an aw70. First swap was aw70 -> m46. Then a couple months ago, I pulled the b21 for a b23. The b23 wasn't in the best condition and was a source of constant problems. I swapped it out for a running b230 from a wrecked 92 240. The 92 was running lh3.1, and i had put in lh2.2 with the b23. Lh is just controlling fuel injection. Spark is the kjet breakerless system, and the fuel pump and relay are still kjet as well.

Needless to say, the car is a bit of a frankenmobile.
 
Manually turning the crank was smooth, with expected resistance. But it never got hung up or drug. It was very smooth. I verified good spark on each wire. I pulled the injector connections and cranked with and without spark, smooth, quick, sounded normal. Tried pulling the plugs, reconnected the injectors.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x1lRYv1WPr8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No problem with fuel delivery.

I'm thinking my timing might be about 180 degrees off. In parts it all seems to work fine, but together they aren't working. Wouldn't trying to fire the engine on the wrong stroke exert a force opposite the one being generated by the starter motor?
 
digital.aaron said:
Manually turning the crank was smooth, with expected resistance. But it never got hung up or drug. It was very smooth. I verified good spark on each wire. I pulled the injector connections and cranked with and without spark, smooth, quick, sounded normal. Tried pulling the plugs, reconnected the injectors.
No problem with fuel delivery.
I'm thinking my timing might be about 180 degrees off. In parts it all seems to work fine, but together they aren't working. Wouldn't trying to fire the engine on the wrong stroke exert a force opposite the one being generated by the starter motor?
Click to expand...

TDC #1 cyl (soda straw down the hole look for valves "split" so
you are on COMPRESSION STROKE FOR THAT CYLINDER..)

where does the DISTRIBUTOR ROTOR POINT??
FIringorder.jpg

strobe timing light confirmation is in order
(plug wires crossed or cap flaky..ck those also!)
 
OK, so I pulled the timing belt off to try to get this thing timed correctly.

Cam is easy to set at TDC for #1. I have the timing mark and I can see the can lobes for #1 sticking up at ~10 and 2.

I checked the distributor and it looked way off. At the TDC mark, it was half way between cyls 1 and 3. Removed it and reinstalled so that at the timing mark, the rotor is pointing at cyl 1.

I then rotated the crank while looking at the timing alignment mark and the piston through spark #1 hole. I can see the piston rise and fall at the crank gear sweeps past the timing mark, but I'm still not sure how to tell if the piston is on the compression stroke or not.

I ended up rotating the crank 360 degrees back to TDC. I put the timing belt back on, and now when I try to start thecar, iI ddon't get the resistance, but it doesn't want to kick over, either.
 
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